American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[hopfenstopfen]

Anyone here try ALDC yet? Been seeing it referenced lately.
Its not cheap. Morebeer - aldc enzyme

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Its not cheap. Morebeer - aldc enzyme

Though at 35 doses for $30 it is not crazy expensive either, especially considering that it might save a batch that has $20+ worth of hops...well, assuming it makes an improvement. I believe this will not stop "creep" but will prevent the creation of Diacyl.

I tend to lean towards the "let the enzymes in hops do their thing" approach. There is some solid evidence that the term "Dry Hopping" came from adding hops to lower the gravity of a beer...to dry it out. Then more modern hop processing techniques killed off the enzymes during processing, before people realized it also squashed some of the desirable hop characteristics. Now with lower temperature processing, hops once again have enzymes that break down starches.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I brewed this back in April. The beer on the right side I don’t recall the recipe but I use rhar 2 row with some golden naked oats. Next beer I’m. Brewing will be 100% gambrinus pils.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Have you ever tried just mashing lower and making those sugars available during fermentation?

I feel like this would be a better option than welcoming hopcreep. Hop creep can cause astringency and does change the profile of the beer in comparison to not allowing it to occur.

So would yourapproach be to avoid hop creep whenever possible? Which for us that must mean dry hop cold and short and hope diacetyl doesn’t form…?

I won’t pretend to be an expert on hop creep, It’s a really big topic and quite complicated. But I have listened to a lot a smart brewers give talks on it and try to follow their lead. That said I don’t think mashing low does much to avoid hop creep so it doesn’t really solve the problem… but maybe mashing for the body you want, dry hopping cold, and then never letting your beer or cans warm up and hope refermentation never kicks back up is actually a pretty good plan. (Edit: like you are suggesting)

Here is some great content on talks I’ve heard to help define the issue and what pros are doing about it.

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...-What-It-Is-and-Approaches-to-Managing-It.pdf
Also vinnie has a least a few hours of interviews out there giving tips for approaches to hop creep for home brewers. What a guy! Here’s one

 

[Dgallo]

So would yourapproach be to avoid hop creep whenever possible? Which for us that must mean dry hop cold and short and hope diacetyl doesn’t form…?

I won’t pretend to be an expert on hop creep, It’s a really big topic and quite complicated. But I have listened to a lot a smart brewers give talks on it and try to follow their lead. That said I don’t think mashing low does much to avoid hop creep so it doesn’t really solve the problem… but maybe mashing for the body you want, dry hopping cold, and then never letting your beer or cans warm up and hope refermentation never kicks back up is (?)actually a pretty good plan.

Here is a lot some great content on talks I’ve heard to help dfi e the complexity of the issue and what pros are doing about.

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...-What-It-Is-and-Approaches-to-Managing-It.pdf
Also vinnie has a least a few hours of interviews out there giving tips for approaches to hop creep for home brewers. What a guy! Here’s one

I think there was some confusion on how your read my post. I never claimed mashing low will eliminate hop creep… my response to you was in regards to this specific portion of your post

. I like to dry hop these beers at ferm temps to let the hop creep drive down the FG (this is different than my cold DH process for hazy beers).

Instead of purposely targeting hop creep to influence your final gravity, why not mash lower to control the fg and then go through the typical dryhoping and storage methods to avoid it.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I understood, I think it’s a good suggestion. I have never done it for this style of beer, but do it for hazies, so I think it would work for these too.

But, isnt it interesting that the “experts” don’t suggest avoiding hop creep the way you are suggesting? (See references above and post #8)

Why not? Maybe it’s because they can’t ensure cold side storage and transport. And those who do suggest avoiding dry hop creep (for hazy) can ensure cold storage.

 

[Dgallo]

No worries. I’m glad I was clear then.

Why not? Maybe it’s because they can’t ensure cold side storage and transport. And those who do suggest avoiding dry hop creep (for hazy) can ensure cold storage.

Thats exactly why. They specifically have to worry about it in distribution because they can’t control how properly distributors and beverage centers handle and store their products.

 

[Spivey24]

going to brew this today, but 30 minute boil time for Pilsner malt? Is this intentional for any reason?

 

[wepeeler]

These have been my favorite beers for a couple years now. Surprised there isn't anything like it on this board yet. I've been dialing in this recipe with some pointers/details from a great local brewery (There does not Exist). The result is the modern, lean take on WCIPA a la Green Cheek, Highland Park, Slice, Alvarado St, and TDNE. Very light malt bill, restrained bitterness, bursting hop flavor and aroma. Pilsner malt is key, the water is key, and finishing down at 1.008-1.010 is critical for the full effect. Simcoe and citra is one of my favorite hop combos, they have a synergistic effect that's just perfect for wcipa tho you you could add in some others too. At first glance it might seem like not enough bitterness for IPA, but as long as you get the FG low enough its perfect! My mash schedule below works great and steps are easy on my system, if you want to do a single infusions 148F, no mash out, should work great at keeping the beer dry. I like to dry hop these beers at ferm temps to let the hop creep drive down the FG (this is different than my cold DH process for hazy beers).

https://share.brewfather.app/XAbAi3wKWCJy31
76.7% efficiency
Batch Volume: 23 L
Boil Time: 30 min
Total Water: 32 L
Boil Volume: 26.75 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.059

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.063
Final Gravity (Fixed): 1.010
IBU (Tinseth): 51
BU/GU: 0.80
Colour: 3.9 SRM

Mash​

Temperature — 146 °F — 30 min
Temperature — 158 °F — 30 min

Malts (14 lb)​

10 lb (71.4%) — Weyermann Barke Pilsner — Grain — 1.8 SRM
4 lb (28.6%) — Great Western Brewer's Malt, 2-Row, Premium — Grain — 2 SRM

Hops (12.5 oz)​

0.3 oz (8 IBU) — Simcoe 12.6% — Boil — 30 min
1.5 oz (31 IBU) — Citra 13% — Boil — 15 min
1.7 oz (7 IBU) — Simcoe 12.6% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand @ 180 °F
1 oz (5 IBU) — Citra 13% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand @ 180 °F
4 oz — Citra 13% — Dry Hop
2 oz — Citra lupomax 19% — Dry Hop
2 oz — Simcoe 12.6% — Dry Hop

Miscs​

2 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
1 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
5.5 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
4 ml — Lactic Acid 88% — Mash

Yeast​

2 pkg — Cellar Science Cali Cali 75%
Or similar Chico, Bry-97 is a new favorite.

Fermentation​

Primary — 68 °F
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+ 60, Mg2+ 4, Na+ 8, Cl- 35, SO42- 111, HCO3- 19

View attachment 785912

I'll have to try Pilsner malt as the base. This is my WC-ish ipa recipe for Citra/Mosaic, which has become a staple on my tap list. 1 pack US05. I used to use Vienna instead of Munich, and the color was nearly identical to yours. I'll have to take out the Munich, but damn does it give the beer that extra little umph!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

This is first batch for this style, I did 2row with munich at about 9% and a little bit of carapils. Bittered with chinook then citra and cascade the rest of the way, no dry hops. It's pretty good but I think I'll up the citra on the next batch.

 

[Dgallo]

This is first batch for this style, I did 2row with munich at about 9% and a little bit of carapils. Bittered with chinook then citra and cascade the rest of the way, no dry hops. It's pretty good but I think I'll up the citra on the next batch.
View attachment 806999

Looks great. I think you should dryhop it next time and just use biofine to clear it. I really think that will go a long way

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Never used biofine, just gelatin.. any difference?

 

[wepeeler]

This is first batch for this style, I did 2row with munich at about 9% and a little bit of carapils. Bittered with chinook then citra and cascade the rest of the way, no dry hops. It's pretty good but I think I'll up the citra on the next batch.
View attachment 806999

Munich kicks butt in this style.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Looks great. I think you should dryhop it next time and just use biofine to clear it. I really think that will go a long way

Thanks. Maybe I'll leave my hot side additions alone a dry hop with citra and something or another.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks. Maybe I'll leave my hot side additions alone a dry hop with citra and something or another.

Sounds like a plan. So I got some inside scoop from fiden’s who bases their west coast ipas from New Park and Steve told me they bitter to 30-40 ibus. Whirlpool at about 1lb/bbl and then dryhop at 3 lbs/bbl. They then use biofine at about 1.5-2x the recommended amount

 

[wepeeler]

Sounds like a plan. So I got some inside scoop from fiden’s who bases their west coast ipas from New Park and Steve told me they bitter to 30-40 ibus. Whirlpool at about 1lb/bbl and then dryhop at 3 lbs/bbl. They then use biofine at about 1.5-2x the recommended amount

After using Biofine at 1oz per 5 gal, I realized I was dosing way too high as well. Morebeer has it anywhere between 1/10oz to 1oz per 5. It works so friggin good for my beer, I've continued with the 1oz per 5 gal.

 

[Dgallo]

After using Biofine at 1oz per 5 gal, I realized I was dosing way too high as well. Morebeer has it anywhere between 1/10oz to 1oz per 5. It works so friggin good for my beer, I've continued with the 10z per 5 gal.

I use it at 7.5-10 ml per 5.5-6 gallons in the fermenter and it’s crystal clear in about 3-5 days

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Sounds like a great product, I'll have to get me some. Is there a temp ppl are whirlpooling at for this style? I usually go for 170f

 

[Dgallo]

Sounds like a great product, I'll have to get me some. Is there a temp ppl are whirlpooling at for this style? I usually go for 170f

I’m right around there. 10% or lower alphaI’m 175*f. 10-15% I drop to 165-*f. Above 15% I drop to 155-160*f. I have no true science to back of the efficacy of this but it makes logical sense and it has worked lol

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I can't say I've had this style from any of the pros but I like my first run of it and plan to fine tune it. In the meantime I'll have to try to get my hands on some fidens or similar.

 

[Dgallo]

I can't say I've had this style from any of the pros but I like my first run of it and plan to fine tune it. In the meantime I'll have to try to get my hands on some fidens or similar.

Idk where you’re located, but if you have some solid local or semi locals I’d be down to trade fiden’s for it

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Central pa, I can probably scrounge something up, evergrain is a good local brewery and a few others.

 

[ihavenonickname]

This is first batch for this style, I did 2row with munich at about 9% and a little bit of carapils. Bittered with chinook then citra and cascade the rest of the way, no dry hops. It's pretty good but I think I'll up the citra on the next batch.
View attachment 806999

I'll have to try Pilsner malt as the base. This is my WC-ish ipa recipe for Citra/Mosaic, which has become a staple on my tap list. 1 pack US05. I used to use Vienna instead of Munich, and the color was nearly identical to yours. I'll have to take out the Munich, but damn does it give the beer that extra little umph!View attachment 806921

Both those beers sound, and look great! Up until the last year or so all my West Coast IPAs had some Munich. It may not be everyone’s preference, but you gotta try it without! I guess that’s one of the points of this thread… to get the balance with no Munich (and no crystal) the beer should also should go along with less early addition bitterness, lower final gravity, and a whopping DryHop!

 

[tracer bullet]

When do you guys add the Biofine? I figured it belonged after fermentation, and I didn't want to open the carboy and expose it to air. I used to use it and know it works but that was prior to changing my methods to avoid O2 exposure (and my beer flavors last far longer now as a result).

I also add some Munich to my Pale Ale base, and a little Caramel 40 as well. I typically play around with Cascade and Centennial in various ratios, amounts and times of addition. Never unhappy with the result. My last batch on tap now was about 2/3 Centennial, 1/3 Cascade, with whirpool and dry additions. With the 1272 American II yeast I truly get "tangerine" from it and am really enjoying it right now.

 

[wepeeler]

When do you guys add the Biofine? I figured it belonged after fermentation, and I didn't want to open the carboy and expose it to air. I used to use it and know it works but that was prior to changing my methods to avoid O2 exposure (and my beer flavors last far longer now as a result).

I also add some Munich to my Pale Ale base, and a little Caramel 40 as well. I typically play around with Cascade and Centennial in various ratios, amounts and times of addition. Never unhappy with the result. My last batch on tap now was about 2/3 Centennial, 1/3 Cascade, with whirpool and dry additions. With the 1272 American II yeast I truly get "tangerine" from it and am really enjoying it right now.

I use it in the serving keg, others use it in the fermenter.

 

[stickyfinger]

I use it in the serving keg, others use it in the fermenter.

i wonder if you could just add it in when you dry hop? does it work in the mid 50s or do you need to get it cold first?

 

[wepeeler]

i wonder if you could just add it in when you dry hop? does it work in the mid 50s or do you need to get it cold first?

Not sure. Here's the link to the product from the manufacturer: Biofine® Clear - 1 kg | BSG | Bulk Brewing & Beer Supply Company

 

[stickyfinger]

does it wor

Not sure. Here's the link to the product from the manufacturer: Biofine® Clear - 1 kg | BSG | Bulk Brewing & Beer Supply Company

it says to avoid 15C or higher. i suppose it works better the colder it gets. might be worth trying at like 55F as you do the dry hop just to see. I wouldn't be afraid to dryhop, chill down to 32 and then open up with a CO2 purge and dump in the biofine, pressurize a bit and then swirl.

 

[Dgallo]

When do you guys add the Biofine? I figured it belonged after fermentation, and I didn't want to open the carboy and expose it to air. I used to use it and know it works but that was prior to changing my methods to avoid O2 exposure (and my beer flavors last far longer now as a result).

I also add some Munich to my Pale Ale base, and a little Caramel 40 as well. I typically play around with Cascade and Centennial in various ratios, amounts and times of addition. Never unhappy with the result. My last batch on tap now was about 2/3 Centennial, 1/3 Cascade, with whirpool and dry additions. With the 1272 American II yeast I truly get "tangerine" from it and am really enjoying it right now.

Biofine is intended to be used in cold beer where it is mixed in well. Pro breweries typically use it in line, in a hop back or similar vessel while they are transferring from fermenter to brite tank so that it mixes well. The way I found works the best at the Homebrew level is to use it in a secondary fermenter or keg with close transfer capabilities.


Use the typical process of liquid purging the secondary vessel. when purged, measure out the biofine in a syringe. Then you're going to start unscrewing the pressure relief valve. When your close to unscrewing it all the way, connect the co2 line to your gas bulkhead with low psi and then completely unscrew the prv. Then use the syringe to push the biofine into the keg/fv. Once in, let the gas run for a 10 second to prevent as much o2 from entering as possible. Then screw the prv back in.

After that you’ll close transfer as normal and rock the keg/secondary back and forth a few times to makes sure it’s completely mixed in. After that crash it and wait 3-5 days. After that you’ll be left with crystal clear beer.

 

[stickyfinger]

Biofine is intended to be used in cold beer where it is mixed in well. Pro breweries typically use it in line, in a hop back or similar vessel while they are transferring from fermenter to brite tank so that it mixes well. The way I found works the best at the Homebrew level is to use it in a secondary fermenter or keg with close transfer capabilities.


Use the typical process of liquid purging the secondary vessel. when purged, measure out the biofine in a syringe. Then you're going to start unscrewing the pressure relief valve. When your close to unscrewing it all the way, connect the co2 line to your gas bulkhead with low psi and then completely unscrew the prv. Then use the syringe to push the biofine into the keg/fv. Once in, let the gas run for a 10 second to prevent as much o2 from entering as possible. Then screw the prv back in.

After that you’ll close transfer as normal and rock the keg/secondary back and forth a few times to makes sure it’s completely mixed in. After that crash it and wait 3-5 days. After that you’ll be left with crystal clear beer. View attachment 807031View attachment 807032

Do you just serve off of the top of the stuff that falls out with the Biofine?