American IPA The New West Coast IPA

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CascadesBrewer

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I used flagship by imperial. I highly recommend it for this style of beer.

As much as the homebrewing community often likes to look down on Chico strains as being too common, I believe every brewer in that podcast said they were using a version of Chico. I have done a few comparisons, and I keep coming back to Chico as my favorite for American IPAs and Pale Ales. Maybe I would like it to ferment a little faster and drop clear a bit faster, but I find it leaves behind just enough body and sweetness with limited yeast esters.

I have been playing around with W-34/70 fermented in the low 60F's for my recent West Coast Pilsner batches (or maybe they are "The New West Coast Pale Ale"). It is an interesting yeast for the style and produces a clean and crisp beer. I have heard of a few breweries that have been using 34/70 for all their West Coast IPAs.
 
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ihavenonickname

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"The New West Coast Pale Ale"
Ha! 👍🏻

I have heard of a few breweries that have been using 34/70 for all their West Coast IPAs.
yes I think this is really interesting - I know Bob from Highland Park has been really upfront about using it for all their WCIPA. And Firestone Walker’s newest brand of IPA (hopnosis) uses their house lager strain. It’s something I plan to play around with as I make this style more.

@Noob_Brewer regarding the 2-row in my grist I was waiting for someone to call me out on that. I’ve been doing it for these beers per the direction of the local brewery that’s been helping me on this recipe (TDNE in SLO, CA). I prefer to have some pale malt (2-row) in the grist when I use Barke pils to help neutralize that distinct (grape like?) flavor I get from it. But I like these beers with straight weyerman pils for sure and I think getting the right balance of light and crisp but still some familiar malt flavor and body is personal preference and will vary greatly with all the different pilsners out there.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Here is my "New West Coast Pale Ale" at just over a week in the keg. It was brewed on Jan 2 and kegged on Jan 15. It is drinking very nice. It still has a touch of haze. This batch targeted 2.7 gallons into the fermenter:

Stats
• OG: 1.049
• FG: 1.009
• ABV: 5.3%
• IBUs: 39.6
Grain
• 4.60 lb Pilsner Malt (Sekado) - Mash 150F 60 min
Hops
• 0.17 oz Warrior - Boil 60 min (18.0 IBUs)
• 0.25 oz Simcoe - Boil 10 min (8.9 IBUs)
• 0.75 oz Centennial - Whirlpool 20 min at 170.0 F (6.0 IBUs)
• 0.75 oz Simcoe - Whirlpool 20 min at 170.0 F (6.6 IBUs)
• 0.75 oz Centennial - Dry Hop
• 0.75 oz Simcoe - Dry Hop
Yeast
• 1 pkg W-34/70 (Start 62F, raise to 66F, cold crash 2 days)

My prior batch was the same recipe but Citra in place of Centennial and used Avangard Pils.

IMG_4480.JPG
 

Noob_Brewer

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Ha! 👍🏻


yes I think this is really interesting - I know Bob from Highland Park has been really upfront about using it for all their WCIPA. And Firestone Walker’s newest brand of IPA (hopnosis) uses their house lager strain. It’s something I plan to play around with as I make this style more.

@Noob_Brewer regarding the 2-row in my grist I was waiting for someone to call me out on that. I’ve been doing it for these beers per the direction of the local brewery that’s been helping me on this recipe (TDNE in SLO, CA). I prefer to have some pale malt (2-row) in the grist when I use Barke pils to help neutralize that distinct (grape like?) flavor I get from it. But I like these beers with straight weyerman pils for sure and I think getting the right balance of light and crisp but still some familiar malt flavor and body is personal preference and will vary greatly with all the different pilsners out there.
Dude thats plenty of good reason for me lol. FWIW, Ive really been getting more and more into just tasting the grains to help me with my grain composition. With respect to weyermann malts, IMHO there is definitely a sensory difference when eating the grains between Barke, Floor-malted, and regular Pilsner malts from the same manufacturer. I have some Barke but haven't brewed with it yet, so will be interested to see if that "grape" like flavor becomes more prominent in the final brew. Might have to do another comparison to look for it again on the same grain tasting.
 

faithie999

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My current house IPA recipe was heavily influenced by Racer 5, which I also think is a great beer (at least when I can get a fresh bottle). My last batch had 5.6% Crystal 20 (with a 2-row base and 9% wheat malt...it is a clear beer though). I have it on my list to brew another batch swapping out the Crystal 20 for some Munich 10 or 15.
the recipe (not my design) I've been using for a Racer 5 clone also has about 3% Caramel Pils. what does that add/what would omitting that leave out?

thanks!
 

Shenanigans

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Anyone ever try extra pale Maris Otter for one of these?
I have some here and might give it a go.
Several recipes use it in the DIY Dog book from Brew Dog too.

It's coming close to brew day again and I'm drving myself crazy again trying to decide on the 3 best beers to brew o_O
One of the disadvantages of hoarding so many hops, grains and yeasts.:rolleyes:
 
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Langerz

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Planning to do this one for my next brew but have a question on the dry hop schedule. Based on the notes in the recipe the dry hops are only left in about 1 day, but I'm not clear when people are dry hopping these. Maybe it's not critical and any time after fermentation has calmed down.

I've got a bit of an odd schedule coming up with work travel and a vacation trip and I want to make sure I plan my brew day accordingly.

Thanks
 

CascadesBrewer

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the recipe (not my design) I've been using for a Racer 5 clone also has about 3% Caramel Pils. what does that add/what would omitting that leave out?

thanks!
I am not sure I have every noticed anything positive or negative from using Carapils. I have played around a little with Briess Carapils, and Weyerman Carafoam. I tend to think that a little Malted Wheat actually does what Carapils claims to do.

I have an iteration of my House IPA recipe in the fermenter now. I swapped out the 6% Crystal 20 for 9% Munich (Light Munich from Avangard...I think). I also used Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell for the yeast. Before adding the dry hop addition yesterday, the Liberty Bell dropped crystal clear in the fermenter and it is a pretty looking beer so far. This recipe features Columbus, Centennial and Chinook.

I also have another iteration of a "Hoppy Pils" going. This one is fermenting under pressure in a keg with Lallemand NovaLager. The grain bill is about 88% Pils + 8% Wheat Malt + 4% Honey Malt. Hops are Centennial in the boil, and Citra + Mosaic at flameout and in a whirlpool.

Overall, I have really been digging these batches that combine aspects of a Pilsner with a Pale Ale or IPA.
 

elproducto

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Planning to do this one for my next brew but have a question on the dry hop schedule. Based on the notes in the recipe the dry hops are only left in about 1 day, but I'm not clear when people are dry hopping these. Maybe it's not critical and any time after fermentation has calmed down.

I've got a bit of an odd schedule coming up with work travel and a vacation trip and I want to make sure I plan my brew day accordingly.

Thanks
I soft crash when fermentation is complete,down to 55f and dry hop for 2 days at that temp and then cold crash.
 

tracer bullet

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I started doing somethign like that too. Ferment for about 1.5 weeks and ensuring activity has stopped. Semi cold crash (I go for about 50 - 55 as well because it's what my setup can manage) to try and get the yeast out of suspension a little more (i.e. if it's 1056). Once the beer's fairly clear I finally dry hop for 3-4 days.

I found that getting the yeast out, I think, gives a little more hop flavor. I notice when I keg that the hops aren't sitting under a layer of yeast, where I presume they aren't as effective. A little bit of extra time and some semi cold crashing has them less covered and perhaps giving up more flavor. I wouldn't worry about it but I can do it so I do it.

Dry hopping a Simcoe / Cascade / Centennial right now. Looking forward to it!
 

Langerz

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I'm still pretty new and haven't gotten to the point I have a good set up for cold crashing. My main question was around the note from the brewfather recipe posted in the OP...

"Dryhops are usually in the 3.5-4lb/bbl range and we do about a 30 hour contact time before dumping the hops out, and we rouse the tanks with Co2 from the bottom post dry hop & the next morning after the dry hop." The recipe itself also lists 1 day for the dry hop schedule.

I was curious if people are actually doing that and what the timing is.
 

CascadesBrewer

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I was curious if people are actually doing that and what the timing is.
It looks like that might be some comments from a professional brewer.

The OPs recipe has 8 oz of dry hops. I have been pretty happy with 4 oz of dry hops in more West Coast style IPAs (and 6 to 8 oz in NEIPA style beers). My standard dry hopping is to add them, cold crash 2 days later, and keg after another 2 days. (Sometimes life gets in the way of those timings.)

Based on some research showing dry hopping early in fermentation produces more clear beer, on my last two "Hoppy Pilsner" batches I dry hopped on day 2 and left the hops in until packaging. I have been very happy with the hop character in those beers (as well as the clarity). Those were OGs closer to 1.050 and dry hops of 3 oz per 5 gallon (so actually 2.5 gal batches with 1.5 oz of dry hops).
 

tracer bullet

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I'm something like 3 oz in an American IPA and 6 in a NEIPA, for a ~5 gallon or so batch. It's certainly "by taste" though. Can't go wrong with a little more or less. I'm probably on the lighter end of the spectrum.
 
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ihavenonickname

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I'm still pretty new and haven't gotten to the point I have a good set up for cold crashing. My main question was around the note from the brewfather recipe posted in the OP...

"Dryhops are usually in the 3.5-4lb/bbl range and we do about a 30 hour contact time before dumping the hops out, and we rouse the tanks with Co2 from the bottom post dry hop & the next morning after the dry hop." The recipe itself also lists 1 day for the dry hop schedule.

I was curious if people are actually doing that and what the timing is.
Yeah @CascadesBrewer is right this is from the email I got back from the local pro brewer at TDNE. His beers are right there with other great breweries in Ca like Alvarado st, green cheek, highland park, NPBC. That’s his dry hop method and from what I gather he’s treating WCIPA and hazy the same - huge DH, short contact, minimal yeast.

I just dry hopped my latest version that I’m very excited about. I soft crashed to 50f, 8oz of strata and lupomax citra for 24h at 55f, then cold crash to 34 for 24 hours. All under 5psi in Kegmenter.

The more I try these beers and hear what other brewers have to say about them the more I stand by the DH rate (2oz/gal) and Pilsner malt. Give it a go!
 

Langerz

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I'm going to ask this a little differently and specific to this upcoming brew and my odd schedule. I'd like to follow the following schedule...

Brew Day March 4th
Dry Hop on the 17th. That is longer than I would usually go before dry hopping but don't think that would likely be a problem. It's either that or wait to brew until later, but I'd really like to get a batch in as long as it will come out ok.
 
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ihavenonickname

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I'm going to ask this a little differently and specific to this upcoming brew and my odd schedule. I'd like to follow the following schedule...

Brew Day March 4th
Dry Hop on the 17th. That is longer than I would usually go before dry hopping but don't think that would likely be a problem. It's either that or wait to brew until later, but I'd really like to get a batch in as long as it will come out ok.
Yes that’s a fine schedule. You will very likely be dry hopping after fermentation is complete (which many of us argue is the best way) which will necessitate that you reduce cold side oxidation as much as possible. Popular ways to do that are: cold crash under pressure, dry hop while co2 is flowing into the fermenter, add o.2g metabisulfite (k meta, na meta, Campden), closed transfer to keg. All good measures to take to keep your hoppy beers fresh and aromatic!

In contrast DH during fermentation May be a little more beginner friendly as it will help reduce dissolved oxygen.
 

CascadesBrewer

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I'm going to ask this a little differently and specific to this upcoming brew and my odd schedule. I'd like to follow the following schedule...

Brew Day March 4th
Dry Hop on the 17th. That is longer than I would usually go before dry hopping but don't think that would likely be a problem. It's either that or wait to brew until later, but I'd really like to get a batch in as long as it will come out ok.
I would say that is fine. I would quess that most my beers are "ready" to dry hop somewhere in the 7 to 10 day range. I usually then look at my schedule to see when I can fit in time to package, and try to dry hop about 4 days before then (2 days at a warmer temp, 2 day cold crash). Maybe that is day 7. Maybe that is day 16. I generally think a few more days in the fermenter is a good thing.
 

Dgallo

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I decided to brew a dme, partial mash and short boil variation of a Modern West Coast ipa.

Fermentables
6 lb Pilsner lite dme
4 lbs Pilsner malt
1 lb carapils
0.5lb dextrose

Hotside hops
20 ibus of Columbus @30

0.5 oz Galaxy
0.5 oz talus @ 5

Whirlpooled
1-1 ratio of talus to Galaxy

Dryhopping today
2-1 ratio of talus to mosaic cryo

Will update once pouring
 
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Langerz

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Brewed a version of this yesterday. We’ll see how it turns out. Forgot whirlfloc so will try to make up for that with gelatin. We’ll see how clear I get
 

Dgallo

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Curiousity question: What (if anything) are you doing for water adjustments with the partial mash?
I mashed the grains separate while I started to boil the dme wort and added the hops as needed. In the mash I adjusted for ph and only added gypsum to my tap water to target a 2.25 to so4 to Cl ratio. Obviously I know I can’t know the final water chem due to the dme, I figured with this ratio I’d have wiggle room on either ends to still be in or close to appropriate for style
 
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ihavenonickname

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I decided to brew a dme, partial mash and short boil variation of a Modern West Coast ipa.

Fermentables
6 lb Pilsner lite dme
4 lbs Pilsner malt
1 lb carapils
0.5lb dextrose

Hotside hops
20 ibus of Columbus @30

0.5 oz Galaxy
0.5 oz talus @ 5

Whirlpooled
1-1 ratio of talus to Galaxy

Dryhopping today
2-1 ratio of talus to mosaic cryo

Will update once pouring
Looks great! I’m gonna need to do some more dme batches to keep me going as life gets busier. Do you think it saved you a good amount of time?
I love talus for WCIPA - i get such clear grapefruit, pine and roses from it.
What are your quantities for WP and DH?
 

Dgallo

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Looks great! I’m gonna need to do some more dme batches to keep me going as life gets busier. Do you think it saved you a good amount of time?
I love talus for WCIPA - i get such clear grapefruit, pine and roses from it.
What are your quantities for WP and DH?
I did two beers that day, following the same 30 minute boil and mini-mashing while boiling and adding it back to be pasteurized. It took me a total 4-4.5 hours with clean up. That would typically take me 7-7.5
 

Dgallo

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I did two beers that day, following the same 30 minute boil and mini-mashing while boiling and adding it back to be pasteurized. It took me a total 4-4.5 hours with clean up. That would typically take me 7-7.5
I’m whirlpooling with about 6oz and dryhoping with 10 oz. Then biofining it
 

BongoYodeler

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Just stumbled on this thread very interesting, thanks @ihavenonickname . Also nice to see There Does Not Exist get some props, they're local to me and putting out some really good beers. Owner/Brewer Max Montgomery is also making some really good pilsners.

This is a style I haven't brewed before, but now I want to. I've also never used Biofine to clear, only gelatin. But it looks easier and may even work better? Someone earlier asked the question whether it can be added to the serving keg before it's being purged by fermentation CO2. If it was answered I missed it. Anyone?
 

Jesse Runowski

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Someone earlier asked the question whether it can be added to the serving keg before it's being purged by fermentation CO2. If it was answered I missed it. Anyone?
I don't see why you couldn't. I use the method shared by @Dgallo. It's super easy and it works really well. I use a syringe to push 20ml through the PRV hole while pushing co2 into the keg at around 2 psi. I then swirl the beer inside the keg to make sure it mixes well. I don't think I'll ever go back to gelatin.
 

BongoYodeler

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I don't see why you couldn't. I use the method shared by @Dgallo. It's super easy and it works really well. I use a syringe to push 20ml through the PRV hole while pushing co2 into the keg at around 2 psi. I then swirl the beer inside the keg to make sure it mixes well. I don't think I'll ever go back to gelatin.
Thanks. I may give that a try. Also, I bought a syringe recently that I connected to the gas-in QD to shoot gelatin into a filled keg of my Irish Red Ale. So I can also do that same thing going forward with Biofine I suppose. I've only tried the syringe>gas QD method he one time so far, but it seemed to work fine, although the red ale is not as clear as I'd hoped it would be. Maybe needs more time. But I agree, Biofine does sound like less of a hassle than mixing up gelatin.
 

Dgallo

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Just stumbled on this thread very interesting, thanks @ihavenonickname . Also nice to see There Does Not Exist get some props, they're local to me and putting out some really good beers. Owner/Brewer Max Montgomery is also making some really good pilsners.

This is a style I haven't brewed before, but now I want to. I've also never used Biofine to clear, only gelatin. But it looks easier and may even work better? Someone earlier asked the question whether it can be added to the serving keg before it's being purged by fermentation CO2. If it was answered I missed it. Anyone?
Biofine is use most effectively when mixed harmoniously to a chilled (serving temps) liquid. It will work at warmer temps but takes long and may not be as effective
 
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ihavenonickname

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Lots of great contribution to the thread so far, thanks everybody!

Here’s my latest version and first since I posted originally. I definitely stand by some of the key features to this version of west coast IPA being: really light malt bill (all of mostly pils), lower than classic ibu from the kettle, extra low finishing gravity, huge Dry Hop. I love the way this beer drinks - super delicate body, dry and snappy. Flavor wise it’s all hops! Bright Citrus and lots of tropical some red fruit and just a touch dank. Aroma has some really nice bubble gum and dank. You know, like strata and citra! Lingering hop flavor with a lasting bitterness, it’s seriously delicious.

100% weyerman pils 1.062 to 1.008
I used 34/70 for this at 65F. Strong super clean ferment.

Warrior at 30 min, 10 ibus

Strata at 10 min, 25 IBU, 2 oz

Citra Lupo and strata in 180f WP, 4oz

Dy hop cold post fermentation
Strata 6oz and citra Lupo 4oz

I added gelatin to the keg by the “chino gelatin cannon” or whatever it’s called (water bottle, carb cap, gas jumper, pressure) shook the keg with it and it was crystal clear like this the next day.

Edit: more details


D087E79E-F34E-4160-93EC-ADFD8AE52DB3.jpeg FBE5D8A3-3841-4ADB-8163-1E2633F904BA.jpeg
 
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beervoid

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Lots of great contribution to the thread so far, thanks everybody!

Here’s my latest version and first sense. I posted originally. I definitely stand by some of the key features to this version of west coast IPA being: really light malt bill (all of mostly pils), lower than classic ibu from the kettle, extra low finishing gravity, huge DryHop.
100% weyerman pils 1.062 to 1.008

Warrior at 30 min, 10 ibus

Strata at 10 min, 25 IBU, 2 oz

Citra Lupo and strata in 180f WP, 4oz

Dy hop cold post fermentation
Strata 6oz and citra Lupo 4oz

I added gelatin to the keg by the “chino gelatin cannon” or whatever it’s called (water bottle, carb cap, gas jumper, pressure) shook the keg with it was crystal clear like this the next day.
Looks refreshing.
What yeast did you use and what are the tasting notes?
 

DrGMG

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I decided to brew a dme, partial mash and short boil variation of a Modern West Coast ipa.

Fermentables
6 lb Pilsner lite dme
4 lbs Pilsner malt
1 lb carapils
0.5lb dextrose

Hotside hops
20 ibus of Columbus @30

0.5 oz Galaxy
0.5 oz talus @ 5

Whirlpooled
1-1 ratio of talus to Galaxy

Dryhopping today
2-1 ratio of talus to mosaic cryo

Will update once pouring
Talus is a good hop, but so overpowering.

I brewed my version Saturday.

100% Pearl malt
57 IBU
1080 OG

Eureka extract @60
Cryo mosaic, cryo simcoe, citra WP

Nelson, mosaic, citra DH

Will post results when done.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Sorry I failed. I tried to tweak my house IPA recipe a bit to push it towards "new west coast." I swapped the Crystal 20 for Munich 8 and decided to use Mangrove Jack's Liberty Bell vs US-05. I was surprised how clear the beer looked in the fermenter before I dry hopped. The beer has only been in the keg for a week, so I suspect it will drop clear. The core recipe is 83% 2-Row, 8.5% Munich, 8.5% Malted Wheat, with Columbus, Centennial and Chinook hops (calculated 67 IBUs).

It is not a bad beer. I brewed it as my American IPA entry for NHC (which I need to package and ship next week). It has a lot of classic American IPA flavors of Citrus, Pine, Dank, and Resin with notes of Cantaloupe and Pineapple. It came in a bit higher ABV than planned (at 7.9%) and there is a bit of a alcoholic note that I hope will fade in the near 4 weeks until NHC judging.

20230305_155216.jpg
 

Dgallo

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Talus is a good hop, but so overpowering.
I haven't used it since it was an unnamed hop and really looking forward to trying it. Being slightly familiar and knowing it’s Sabro parentage, I had a filling it would be potent so I’m hoping my planning was solid. I want it to be the star but want the Galaxy and mosaic to be come across but more supportive
 

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I haven't used it since it was an unnamed hop and really looking forward to trying it. Being slightly familiar and knowing it’s Sabro parentage, I had a filling it would be potent so I’m hoping my planning was solid. I want it to be the star but want the Galaxy and mosaic to be come across but more supportive
I think I used 0.5oz in WP with citra in a non boil IPA, it completely took over. I've had 2-3 commercial ones, and the flavor is very distinct. It's a good hop, but can be a bit much.
 
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