I got some ALDC and used it in a West Coast IPA with good results. I have a NEIPA going right now that I crashed, dumped my yeast, raised the temp back up to 60F, added the ALDC and dry hopped...we shall see.
American IPA The New West Coast IPA
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I got some ALDC and used it in a West Coast IPA with good results. I have a NEIPA going right now that I crashed, dumped my yeast, raised the temp back up to 60F, added the ALDC and dry hopped...we shall see.
Sounds like a good product to add to the arsenal.
Edit.. I'm not sure I grasp how diacetyl and hop creep are related, or how stopping diacetyl will eliminate hop creep if you still have a fermentation kick up after dryhopping.
Edit.. I'm not sure I grasp how diacetyl and hop creep are related, or how stopping diacetyl will eliminate hop creep if you still have a fermentation kick up after dryhopping.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
If I understand the product correctly it doesn’t prevent hop creep, it only prevents hop creep from creating diacetyl
In more beers description the first sentence says: stop hop creep before it happens
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Marketing genius?! If you don't get hop creep when using the product, it "MUST" have been the product that prevented it! LMAO
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
That’s would mean two things then. It either makes yeast ineffective or denatures the enzyme in hops that break down sugars. I’ll have to look into it more
Yeah, it says you can add it when you pitch yeast so it must not stop the yeast in any way. I'm thinking it just prevents diacetyl and throwing hop creep in there is a marketing point.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
It shouldn’t have any impact on hop creep at all. It just throws a wrench into the chemical pathway leading to diacetyl formation. There is a precursor compound to diacetyl that is enzymatically changed into another compound, so diacetyl shouldn’t really form
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
You must taste that in any hop high in 4mhp. Studies are showing that a good amount of people are sensitive to it. I’d stay away from thiolized yeast strains as well
From the More Beer page on the product
"Although commonly added to heavily dry hopped beers, using ALDC during fermentation can benefit any beer style by reducing Diacetyl production. Brewing hops all contain the naturally occurring enzyme AMG or amyloglucosidase which breaks down long chain sugars into simple sugars that yeast can ferment. The reason hop creep is a relatively new phenomenon is due to the changing ways in which hops are dried and processed. As brewers started to demand more aromatics from their hops, growers began to lower the kilning temperatures to preserve volatile oils. This led to higher levels of AMG left on the hops as well, where they were previously denatured at the higher kilning temperatures. With more AMG present on the hops, dry hopping now leads to more fermentation activity and higher levels of Diacetyl produced after the primary fermentation is complete. Although the simplest remedy to hop creep is time—waiting for the yeast to naturally clean up the extra Diacetyl—ALDC is a great way to reduce conditioning time and the risk of off-flavors in your finished beer."
Alpha Acetolactate is a precursor to Diacetyl, the ALDC is an enzyme that breaks this up before it can be converted. what's not stated in above, is the short dry hop times we have adopted, and dumping yeast or otherwise removing the beer from the majority of the yeast cake before dry hopping make it more likely for diacetyl to show up. Low cell counts in the remaining beer and relatively inactive fermentation during hop creep mean that even with time, the yeast will have a hard time breaking down that diacetyl. This is why its often recommended to Krausen or otherwise add some actively fermenting wort to help clean up excessive diacetyl (it worked for me once).
There's no chance ALDC stops the actual creep because its not doing anything to the AMG noted above which is creating those fermentable sugars.
Will try cloning Pure Project's Bonsai Beech, was an amazing new American IPA.
We have yet to brew a wcipa . This thread is titled New wcipa. What differs this from a standard ipa. Lighter, crisper? It looks like these recipes lack the addition of any kind of crystal malt which I see in some standard recipes. Am I missing another difference in this one? This definitely appears to be more up my alley than typical wcipa!
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
It’s a more modern take on an aggressively hopped ipa. No crystal malts Are used as the ibus aren’t overly high so you don’t need the sweetness to balance. Also the simple grainbill and clean ferm profile allows the hops to be the sole focus. It’s dryhoped close to the rate of a NEIPA for intensity but then fined so it’s brilliantly clear. But it’s still mashed lower so it still gets a crisp finish to keep high drinkability. I’m a fan of it
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Awesome info man. I appreciate it. Might have to give this style a shot. I can’t say I’ve had one of these but sounds fantastic
ihavenonickname
Well-Known Member
He gets it!
Brewing this again today, going to try acidifying the wort post boil to counter the pH rise from the dry hop. Hoping that helps the hops pop a bit more.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Why not adjust after dryhoping so you have a post Dh ph to adjust off. Then you can just send the pre measured acid through a post or prv and rack on top of it
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I had thought if that but didn't know how to introduce acid and mix it without oxygenation the beer.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Syringe with a needle tip through the prv
Good idea, thanks!
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HB west coast 100% gambrinus Pilsner
Citra incognito at knockout
Dry hopped with Sultana . So good.
Shenanigans
Well-Known Member
Anyone brew one of these with Strata in the mix?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Not this specific grainbill but I love strata personally. Gives a great dankness but has a nice citrus/berry note that’s tied in there too.
Citra/strata or Citra/Strata/Nelson are great combos for west coast or hazy
Shenanigans
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
I don't have much Nelson but I'm going to try a recipe you posted on another thread with Columbus, Strata, Citra and Simcoe.
I only have T90 pellets so hopefully I converted it correctly to replace the lupomax.
It doesn't strictly stick to the new WCIPA described here as it has some Crystal 40 in the grain bill (in my case Caramunich I) and I'll use WLP007.
I'm just chomping at the bit to try some Strata for the first time
Hopefully I can fit in a brew day next month.
Still have package 4 other brews in between; not hoppy ones so they can wait a week or two longer.
ihavenonickname
Well-Known Member
Yeah I’ve done this beer with all strata and loved it, will do again.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
That’s the combo I used with Starparty I need to revisit that with a no thiolized yeast. Unfortunately the thiols took over and I could barely taste the hop combo in the endThanks.
I don't have much Nelson but I'm going to try a recipe you posted on another thread with Columbus, Strata, Citra and Simcoe.
I only have T90 pellets so hopefully I converted it correctly to replace the lupomax.
It doesn't strictly stick to the new WCIPA described here as it has some Crystal 40 in the grain bill (in my case Caramunich I) and I'll use WLP007.
I'm just chomping at the bit to try some Strata for the first time
Hopefully I can fit in a brew day next month.
Still have package 4 other brews in between; not hoppy ones so they can wait a week or two longer.
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Got one of these approaching the end of fermentation. Went all NZ hops I picked up from the source a few months back. Going Nelson, Motueka, Taikeke, 2,1,1. The best version I've tried here was nelson/riwaka but couldn't get the riwaka from nz hops. Incidentally the breweries here in OZ seem to be calling these beers a Cali IPA. Presumably a nod to green cheek or whoever else championed the style. Are they ever called that in the states?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
On the east coast they are referred to as New Style West Coast IPA or Modern West Coast IPA
ihavenonickname
Well-Known Member
That’s funny I’ve never heard any of those terms! But they all make sense. I’ve been in different parts California almost my whole life… around here we just call it west coast ipa. I made up “the new WCIPA” just to try to differentiate it some how.
JTtilinfinity
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I haven’t seen many “new” west coast IPAs up here in MA. This thread has definitely piqued my curiosity, sounds like a perfect hybrid of classic west coast with the NE influence! Who are the brewers exemplifying this style in the northeast (or in distribution)? I need to get my hands on some.
Side note… You mentioned Fidens. I’ve had a couple of their collabs, delicious hazies. I checked some of their WCIPA on untapped and looks like some are clear, some are hazy? Pardon the ignorance but isn’t the clarity supposed to be one of the defining characteristics of this style?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Fiden’s is the only one I know doing it well in the northeast that I have access to. I don’t think it needs to be crystal clear, very light haze is acceptable in what I’ve seen (they also need to empty tanks with the hype they have surrounding them so they might not always give the biofine the full time it needs) but I did see what they were calling a west coast pale ale that was genuinely hazy
This is what I’m getting at with naming the style, fidens availability for tomorrow;
JTtilinfinity
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Photos like this had me scratching my head… looks like a NEIPA to me, so just curious how they’re distinguishing and marketing them differently.
If you’re ever in need of a MA trading partner hit me up!
If you’re ever in need of a MA trading partner hit me up!
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This beer cleared up nicely. The gambrinus malt let’s the hops shine nicely.
Oh boy, check out the latest episode of Craft Beer and Brewing podcast!
Roundtable discussion about WCIPA.
Roundtable discussion about WCIPA.
I know this thread is about newer lighter bodies IPAs, but am I the only on thinking that these guys might be pushing it too far? At least one guy talked about not only using just 100% Pilsner malt, but finding the palest Pilsner malt he could find and avoiding malts with flavors. I am fine with avoiding Crystal malts, but I do want an IPA that is more than just a hoppy seltzer or Bud.
I recently had a Blind Pig. I recall really enjoying this beer in the past. The current one was out of balance to me with almost no malt. I am not sure what the current grain bill looks like. Vinny talked about using a Rahr 2-row blend (that I think had a little more color and flavor than standard Rahr).
Personally, I brewed a 100% Avandard Pils beer that might be a West Coast Pilsner. My homebrew friends raved about it, but I thought it was a bit too bland (Avangard Pils has always come across as very neutral to me). I recently brewed a very similar batch but using Sekado Bohemian Pils. This is my first time using this Pils, but this batch has a much better malt flavor.
mrcastellino
Well-Known Member
Like most things it comes down to personal preference. When done correctly, these beers are obviously enjoyable to many. The evolution of less and less malt in commercial IPAs I believe is a reflection of overall customer change in taste. Luckily as homebrewers we can continue to brew the beers we prefer the most and dont have to rely on commercial breweries catering to current trends.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
I don't think you are crazy with your thinking. I have done the same. Admittedly, I have never brewed a standard american IPA nor a WCIPA though lol. Ive never had blind pig but have had pliny the elder....twice and within the last 4 or so years. @ihavenonickname posted a very nice post on post #34 of this thread with Vinny and it was great to hear about how pliny (and Im assuming blind pig) have evolved over the years. No more crystal...check. Instead he suggested 2 row, pale ale malt, and some munich. I agree that this strategy might give a better malt/hop balance overall compared to the pilsner focused new style WCIPA recipe that is posted here. From my recollection of having Pliny, I thought that the beer was absolutely beautifully constructed with a nice/supportive malt bill and the beer wasn't what you'd consider your old school 1000 IBU party. It was balanced. But even though russian river is west coast, what is being talked about here is a different beast. @Dgallo also gave a nice summary of the new take on the WCIPA in post #94. I will probably be doing this beer with a more pilsner focused slant the way the OP suggested in initial post vs more of the current russian river approach. Both don't have the crystal and both want to finish with a lower FG to get that crisper finish, but it appears russian river's new(er) pliney style would indeed add a little more malty backbone. I think it truly comes down to individual preference in the end. I am interested in why @ihavenonickname kept the original recipe with ~29% 2 row vs all pilsner though. Just curious. Finally I will say that the Barke series is excellent! The Barke Pilsner that was posted in the OP would seem to have a better crackery backbone even more so than any other Pilsner IMHO.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the post. If I can find 2hrs of free time to totally geek out on this, I will be a happy man
I am not sure I can get Russian River beers readily here in Virginia. I was near Denver over Christmas and got a bottle of Blind Pig and Pliny the Elder. I agree that the Pliny was a VERY good beer. I have only had Pliny a few times over the years, and usually just 2 oz samples with a group. A version of Pliny in the 6.5% range would be a very nice target for what I like to drink.
My current house IPA recipe was heavily influenced by Racer 5, which I also think is a great beer (at least when I can get a fresh bottle). My last batch had 5.6% Crystal 20 (with a 2-row base and 9% wheat malt...it is a clear beer though). I have it on my list to brew another batch swapping out the Crystal 20 for some Munich 10 or 15.
