The king is dead, long live the king! Congrats to Bell's Two Hearted

[ProblemChild]

Sorry to point out the obvious but, yes, it does.

I guess I am missing the obvious as well -

How does mass-marketing a decent beer (with no truly defining characteristics other than being non-offensive) earn the ranking of "best"?

 

[beernutz]

So you insult people that have a different opinion than you... for having a different opinion? Seems kind of hypocritical. I realize that you weren't really talking about my specific post, as I clearly wasn't having a meltdown, but still, insulting people isn't really necessary.

Back on topic, I agree with several recent posts, this list smacks of who's got mildly flavored beer (per style) that is distributed really well. Case in point, I'm from KC (KS side) and Boulevard is a solid brewery. Almost everything they put out is enjoyed by the masses, yet nothing is really outstanding (especially anything hoppy). No way they should be in the top 10, yet they are distributed darn near everywhere.

Right, the takeaway from my comment is that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

 

[skidmark]

I guess I am missing the obvious as well -

How does mass-marketing a decent beer (with no truly defining characteristics other than being non-offensive) earn the ranking of "best"?

Although _you_ may know of other beers that _you_ prefer, this list is made up of beers that the majority of responding homebrewers prefer. There may be an absolutely fantastic beer with a distribution area of 4 city blocks, but it won't make the list. Homebrewers, in general, do know good beer from bad.

This reminds me of the "I liked Band XYZ before they sold out and left the garage ..." debates.

 

[kh54s10]

Of the list I have only tried: 3. Founders Breakfast Stout and T8. Sierra Nevada Celebration. I wouldn't put either in my top 50 list......

They raised the price of 10. Ballast Point Sculpin IPA about $5 a six-pack here so I will not pay that. Their other beers are mediocre at best.

 

[ProblemChild]

Although _you_ may know of other beers that _you_ prefer, this list is made up of beers that the majority of responding homebrewers prefer. There may be an absolutely fantastic beer with a distribution area of 4 city blocks, but it won't make the list. Homebrewers, in general, do know good beer from bad.

This reminds me of the "I liked Band XYZ before they sold out and left the garage ..." debates.

I guess I was wondering how the voting was structured and how these values came to be. I read the article and really could not understand selection criteria other that how many times in a "top 20" a beer's name showed up.

That does not indicate best, it indicates frequency of naming it as noteworthy.

 

[applescrap]

Agree with many, 6 years ago these were the best beers, I am not sure about that now. I was not blown away with Pliny, not to say it wasnt good, but it wasnt at the level many seem to put it on, imo. I really enjoyed two hearted, its rare here, and I heard its in grocery stores out east. That is pretty cool and i would love to get it at grocery stores. I think we all need to offer beers that we would put on that list, especially if we are going to critique. I have been enjoying neipa lately so its hard to compare. I think pliny is a better beer than two hearted. Curious enough pliny is 12th on the list of double ipas, yet i just read it is beer advocates number 1 beer in the world. So the 12th best dipa is the best beer in the world?

View attachment 1498057055073.jpg

View attachment 1498057062136.jpg

 

[skidmark]

I guess I was wondering how the voting was structured and how these values came to be. I read the article and really could not understand selection criteria other that how many times in a "top 20" a beer's name showed up.

That does not indicate best, it indicates frequency of naming it as noteworthy.

"Each year we ask Zymurgy magazine readers to share a list of their 20 favorite beers that are commercially available in the United States."

The methodology is no secret, and just as valid as Consumer Reports reliability rankings. You may or may not agree with the list, but that's how they did theirs.

Of course, you could always start your own poll ...

 

[ProblemChild]

"Each year we ask Zymurgy magazine readers to share a list of their 20 favorite beers that are commercially available in the United States."

The methodology is no secret, and just as valid as Consumer Reports reliability rankings. You may or may not agree with the list, but that's how they did theirs.

Of course, you could always start your own poll ...

The methodology does not indicate "best" just frequency.

Article names it best - should be most popular

 

[skidmark]

The methodology does not indicate "best" just frequency.

Article names it best - should be most popular

No different than so many other polls.

Does the US Presidential election always result in the best President possible? No, it just results in the candidate that went the distance against others who had the temerity, money, organizational support, etc. to run, and to gain the required Electoral College votes.

 

[triethylborane]

Article names it best - should be most popular

You would have to apply that to Pliny for the last 8 years . . . most popular but not necessarily the best.

 

[triethylborane]

I really enjoyed two hearted, its rare here, and I heard its in grocery stores out east.

Ive never seen any Bells beer here, period. Its always brought by a relative from MI, where you can buy full strength beer in grocery stores (and a corporation can hold more than one liquor license). You can get Bells from KS now, but NM will be on distribution in the fall.

 

[isomerization]

Right, the takeaway from my comment is that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

Then what was the takeaway from your 1st comment? No one was (or is) having a meltdown of any sort, so I guess I don't see why you had to bring in the negativity.

One thing that is clear, the large majority of people posting in this thread believe the poll to either be flawed in its execution (e.g. should be most popular not best beers) or just simply disagree with the results.

 

[ProblemChild]

No different than so many other polls.

Does the US Presidential election always result in the best President possible? No, it just results in the candidate that went the distance against others who had the temerity, money, organizational support, etc. to run, and to gain the required Electoral College votes.

Not sure that argument applies - we are not saying "Best" in an election - just the one that won the most electoral votes.

Not sure how this argument applies to declaring some the best as opposed to most popular or the winner.

 

[skidmark]

Not sure that argument applies - we are not saying "Best" in an election - just the one that won the most electoral votes.

Not sure how this argument applies to declaring some the best as opposed to most popular or the winner.

Why not take it up with Zymurgy (and Mental Floss, and Men's Journal, and Ratebeer ...)?

 

[ProblemChild]

Why not take it up with Zymurgy (and Mental Floss, and Men's Journal, and Ratebeer ...)?

Nice use of appeal to ridicule. I'm out

 

[skidmark]

Nice use of appeal to ridicule. I'm out

Not at all. These sites/publications also publish "Best Beers in America" lists. Why not challenge them directly rather than beating it to death here?

 

[beernutz]

Then what was the takeaway from your 1st comment? No one was (or is) having a meltdown of any sort, so I guess I don't see why you had to bring in the negativity.

One thing that is clear, the large majority of people posting in this thread believe the poll to either be flawed in its execution (e.g. should be most popular not best beers) or just simply disagree with the results.

The meltdowns I referred to were not on HBT and I wasn't referring to you in the post where I quoted you. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

However, if a survey asks "What do you feel are the best commercial beers in America?" then that would be the appropriate label for its results.

EDIT: For the record I completed the survey the last two years and while I put Pliny in my top 5 it wasn't 1 or 2 and Two Hearted wasn't in my top 10 so the results don't agree with my opinions on the best beers in America. I do think it is interesting to see what a large group of homebrewers think are the best beers even if I don't agree perfectly with them. The meltdowns I've seen on other forums were along the lines of: those homebrewers are morons and the list is complete crap.

 

[bradleypariah]

Wow - Deschuttes is on those lists a few times. Oregon representing

My favorite beers ever are

• Pipewrench by Gigantic Brewing
• Double Inversion by Deschuttes
• Hop Stoopid by Lagunitas
• Brown Shugga by Lagunitas
• American Amber by Rogue
• Six-Hop by Rogue
• Wookie Jack by Firestone Walker
• Fahrenheit by Bunsenbrewer

None of those are even on the list. It's all subjective. The fact that Rogue isn't anywhere on those lists is mind-boggling. I guess the list can only be so long. Rogue is an entire nation, an ecosystem. They run their own farms, grow all their own unique hop strains, they have their own yeast, they feed their own cattle with spent grain. AFAIK, it is the biggest farm-to-glass empire in the country. I could be wrong.
This is a great episode: http://www.ora.tv/beergeeks/2015/4/30/11-rogue-ales-and-spirits-0_42jxjrg0khxp

I've never had Pliney. I've heard so much about it, I'd love to try it. Not sure where to get it in the Portland/Salem area. Our bars and grocers really only have enough room for Pisswässer and the plethora of beers from the Pacific Northwest. They make a few exceptions for the few beers from California that can compete with our quality.
Your beers are excellent, our beers are excellent. May as well just keep it local.

 

[beernutz]

Wow - Deschuttes is on those lists a few times. Oregon representing

My favorite beers ever are

• Pipewrench by Gigantic Brewing
• Double Inversion by Deschuttes
• Hop Stoopid by Lagunitas
• Brown Shugga by Lagunitas
• American Amber by Rogue
• Six-Hop by Rogue
• Wookie Jack by Firestone Walker
• Fahrenheit by Bunsenbrewer

None of those are even on the list. It's all subjective. The fact that Rogue isn't anywhere on those lists is mind-boggling. I guess the list can only be so long. Rogue is an entire nation, an ecosystem. They run their own farms, grow all their own unique hop strains, they have their own yeast, they feed their own cattle with spent grain. AFAIK, it is the biggest farm-to-glass empire in the country. I could be wrong.
This is a great episode: http://www.ora.tv/beergeeks/2015/4/30/11-rogue-ales-and-spirits-0_42jxjrg0khxp

I've never had Pliney. I've heard so much about it, I'd love to try it. Not sure where to get it in the Portland/Salem area. Our bars and grocers really only have enough room for Pisswässer and the plethora of beers from the Pacific Northwest. They make a few exceptions for the few beers from California that can compete with our quality.
Your beers are excellent, our beers are excellent. May as well just keep it local.

I think the Rogue omission is puzzling to me too as they seem to be widely available and have a lot of GABF medals in their past yet none of their beers made the top 50 on the list either this year or last. Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry? I didn't know about those controversies myself before reading that just now but maybe they are more well known on the west coast.

When I last was in Portland ten years ago one of our meals was at the Rogue taproom and I like their beers that I've tried though Dead Guy is the only one widely available in this area.

 

[thunderwagn]

Ive never seen any Bells beer here, period. Its always brought by a relative from MI, where you can buy full strength beer in grocery stores (and a corporation can hold more than one liquor license). You can get Bells from KS now, but NM will be on distribution in the fall.

Limited selections of Bell's makes it to the state (CO). Not sure what part of the state you're in, but when it comes, I can find it in Loveland and Ft Collins. Be on the lookout around GABF and again at Hopslam release.

 

[violinguy]

Two Hearted is my new favorite/go-to beer. I had it for the first time about a year ago and was hooked. Never had Pliny. I'm more surprised that Surly Furious didn't make the beer list, but the brewery made the best breweries list. Hmmmmm

 

[bradleypariah]

Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry?

I hadn't heard. I'm going to go read up on that.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I think the Rogue omission is puzzling to me too as they seem to be widely available and have a lot of GABF medals in their past yet none of their beers made the top 50 on the list either this year or last. Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry? I didn't know about those controversies myself before reading that just now but maybe they are more well known on the west coast.

When I last was in Portland ten years ago one of our meals was at the Rogue taproom and I like their beers that I've tried though Dead Guy is the only one widely available in this area.

I can't speak for homebrewers in general, but Rogue always seemed like a marketing company more than a brewery. They tried to get into the whole "experimental" high-priced specialty one-off beers very early on.

If you look at their beer list, it's just a bit weird...

• Beard Beer? Why is that a thing?
• Voodoo Doughnut collaborations? If I want a cloyingly-sweet sugar-bomb I'll eat a donut, not drink a beer. This is an unnecessary (and trendy) collaboration.
• Oooh, a sriracha beer? Way to be on trend, guys!
• Another collaboration with Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto. Exciting, huh?

To me, they've just always seemed gimmicky. Their beers seemed more based on novelty or capturing trends than on tasting good. So I generally haven't paid them much attention.

As a result, I probably haven't had a beer from Rogue in at least 5 years.

 

[govner1]

Personally I don't drink or buy any Bell products because of their penchant for filing frivolous lawsuits against minuscule brewers half way across the country that don't even distribute outside their home area because they chose a name similar, but not registered by Bell, for their name.
Senseless.
So screw Bell's!

 

[triethylborane]

Limited selections of Bell's makes it to the state (CO). Not sure what part of the state you're in, but when it comes, I can find it in Loveland and Ft Collins. Be on the lookout around GABF and again at Hopslam release.

Yeah Im not in that area, but good to know. Hope a distributor agreement is made sometime soon. Love pretty much all their beers.

 

[catdaddy66]

It is the beer that swung my opinion of IPA's a complete 180°! I don't drink it often in order to keep it as special of an experience as possible. Great product and worthy of the honor imo...

 

[b-boy]

Sierra Nevada Celebration. I wouldn't put either in my top 50 list......

What?!?!! You sir, have just made a very powerful enemy!!!

 

[kh54s10]

T8. Sierra Nevada Celebration. I wouldn't put either in my top 50 list......

What?!?!! You sir, have just made a very powerful enemy!!!

I didn't say I didn't like Sierra Nevada Celebration... It is just that I have found so many more that are not on that list that I like better!!!!

Getting beers that are distributed in New England, I don't even get to try some listed. Two of my favorite breweries are Long Trail Brewery in Vermont and Two Roads Brewery in Connecticut. Both have several beers that I would put ahead of Sierra Nevada's.

 

[Kee]

The Top Imports list is more than a little strange, but shows that (like in politics) name recognition is most important.

 

[applescrap]

Haha, my wife just sent me an article from our local paper. According to this quality survey, the best beer made in colorado is left hand nitro milk stout. Now don't get me wrong, Left Hand brewery has a special place in my heart as I would pick up Growlers there on my way back and forth from boulder as long as 20 years ago (avery, zymurgy mag., aha head quarters). Great beers, but cmon man. This prom king and queen stuff is a little silly, isnt it. Oh thats right, didnt you all know the 18th best american beer is left hand nitro milk stout.

Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO
Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...o-named-best-beer-in-colorado-18th-best-in-us