TechFanMD
Well-Known Member
Being an east coaster who has travelled to the midwest and from Maine to FL, I thought Bells was nationwide. Not so much.....I wonder how many 'craft' beers not owned by BMC actually see nationwide distribution.
Thirty-eight out of 50 states? That's not even close in horseshoes.They are pretty close. Thirty nine of the 50 states by my count.
https://www.bellsbeer.com/beer-finder
Quibble: I count 39 since So Cal gets Bells.Thirty-eight out of 50 states? That's not even close in horseshoes.
There are two types of people in the world: those who divide the world into two types, and those who do not.
Nah. But among beer drinkers, I do think there are two basic types: Those who want something different all the time, and those who, once they find a good beer, will tend to keep ordering it. Or maybe a few good beers in rotation.
I'm more the second type. When I find a GREAT beer--whether I or someone else brewed it--I want to drink more of it. I like it.
I can't understand why people who, when they find a great-tasting beer, proceed to try something else for which the odds of meeting or exceeding the quality of that great-tasting beer are very low. Great is on one end of the distribution; try any random beer and you'll almost certainly be disappointed in comparison to that great beer..
I don't know if the motivation to try new things in the face of having found an outstanding beer is simply seeing who can taste more, or rate more on the online sites, or what. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, I'm saying I cannot understand it.
I do like to see what's out there, but that's what flights are for. And in the end, I want a pint of a beer I know I want to drink, not something I'm going to wish I could pour into the nearest potted plant.
I'd love to have someone explain why the constant trying of new things. I'm not trying to denigrate those who do it, not at all; I'm just trying to get a handle on the motivation.
40ish since there's still Bell's stock on shelves in VA while it lasts
Is Deschutes nationwide now? I know they've only been on this side of the country maybe 5 years or so (was hella excited when that happened).
And stone is in 44 states. That's pretty much nationwide.
Then one could deduce that to reach "national" distro (especially by your metric) is impossible without ceasing to be craft at all.Deschutes isn't as widely distributed as I thought (29 states). It's just that it's available in the middle of the country where brands like Bells and Stone aren't.
I think that leaves Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and New Belgium as the only independent brands that are available pretty much everywhere. And some will argue that those 3 are too big to be "craft".
Then one could deduce that to reach "national" distro (especially by your metric) is impossible without ceasing to be craft at all.
Then one could deduce that to reach "national" distro (especially by your metric) is impossible without ceasing to be craft at all.
I've noticed that very few breweries distribute to Oklahoma. That's gotta be frustrating for the Okies.Being an east coaster who has travelled to the midwest and from Maine to FL, I thought Bells was nationwide. Not so much.....I wonder how many 'craft' beers not owned by BMC actually see nationwide distribution.
View attachment 619241
I used the Top 50 list and was surprised at how few (#2, #3, and #4 though I might have missed some) distribute nationwide.Being an east coaster who has travelled to the midwest and from Maine to FL, I thought Bells was nationwide. Not so much.....I wonder how many 'craft' beers not owned by BMC actually see nationwide distribution.
View attachment 619241
In a word,inspiration. That's what I want, a tall glass of inspiration. I don't even drink on most weeknights anymore so Friday comes around and I want something new, not something I have had before. I am not on untapped, but these "mystery beers" aren't a mystery at all. I use beer advocate and I never guess. Most beers are really good it seems, but some are amazing. It's easy to find which is which. See this is a case of you don't know what you don't know. If you rarely try anything new than how do you know what you are missing? I get you like some beers how do you know you wont like others especially with massive high ratings supporting quality.There are two types of people in the world: those who divide the world into two types, and those who do not.
Nah. But among beer drinkers, I do think there are two basic types: Those who want something different all the time, and those who, once they find a good beer, will tend to keep ordering it. Or maybe a few good beers in rotation.
I'm more the second type. When I find a GREAT beer--whether I or someone else brewed it--I want to drink more of it. I like it.
I can't understand why people who, when they find a great-tasting beer, proceed to try something else for which the odds of meeting or exceeding the quality of that great-tasting beer are very low. Great is on one end of the distribution; try any random beer and you'll almost certainly be disappointed in comparison to that great beer..
I don't know if the motivation to try new things in the face of having found an outstanding beer is simply seeing who can taste more, or rate more on the online sites, or what. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, I'm saying I cannot understand it.
I do like to see what's out there, but that's what flights are for. And in the end, I want a pint of a beer I know I want to drink, not something I'm going to wish I could pour into the nearest potted plant.
I'd love to have someone explain why the constant trying of new things. I'm not trying to denigrate those who do it, not at all; I'm just trying to get a handle on the motivation.
In a word,inspiration. That's what I want, a tall glass of inspiration. I don't even drink on most weeknights anymore so Friday comes around and I want something new, not something I have had before. I am not on untapped, but these "mystery beers" aren't a mystery at all. I use beer advocate and I never guess. Most beers are really good it seems, but some are amazing. It's easy to find which is which. See this is a case of you don't know what you don't know. If you rarely try anything new than how do you know what you are missing? I get you like some beers how do you know you wont like others especially with massive high ratings supporting quality.
Another reason is that in Denver we get some beers that come through only once or twice and I want to try them. I go to liquor store and see m 43, Lawson sip, pernicious ipa, half acre gone away, founders kbs, and I know others love them so I want to try them. I have to agree people like my buddy who grabs any old local junky beer off the shelf makes no sense to me. The price of these beers demand a closer look before purchase. Look up some of those beers and you will see they are worth the try. A new local brewery with no reputation not so much. In the case of my friend I think he uses all kinds of rationale to justify he is too cheap to try a new 4 pack.
I don't recall saying I never try new beers--typically when I'm out to a new taproom or brewery I'll try a flight to determine what I might like, but there's a funny thing that goes on with this.
All the "famous" beers I've had haven't been all that great. A local bar had a keg of Zombie Dust delivered, made a big deal about the tapping of said keg. I of course, never having had ZD before, thought I'd like to have a pint of this supposed nectar of the gods.
Well. Can't figure out what all the shouting is about. A bitter IPA. Big deal. I've had them before.
There's another aspect of this that I think most people don't consider. That is, if you rank all beers and you find a few that are at the very top, what are the odds in trying a new beer that you'll exceed what that is? Answer: very, very low. Yeah, there might be something better, but that's not the way to bet.
Knowing this, when I'm out to enjoy myself, I want to enjoy myself--with an exceptional beer, not a hope and a prayer which almost certainly will not pan out.
I'm not too cheap...I'm just realistic. I've had KBS, nice beer, but it didn't do that much for me. I certainly wouldn't pay more than standard fare for it. Instead, I'd rather have a beer I know is great, to my palate, than simply wade through a thicket of similar beers.
Now, YMMV. I suspect it does, in fact. I like what I like, and after having tried many, many beers, I've found a few that to me are exceptional. And when I go out, the last thing I want to do is turn down a known exceptional beer for a hope and a prayer.
But if that's not your way, it's not your way. People like what they like. That doesn't make them wrong.
I want to enjoy myself, and drinking an exceptional beer is how I like to do that. Grabbing something other than that because it might be better, when the odds of that happening are between slim and none, isn't my idea of a good time, especially when I have to slog my way through the rest of that pint. Others might have different ways of enjoying themselves, and that's fine too.
*******
Was in Asheville NC last weekend, and made a specific pilgrimmage back to Pisgah Brewing in Black Mountain. I was there in June, had a Rye Stout that was just to die for--and I'm not a Stout guy--and a Schwarzbier that was the best commercial lager I've ever had anywhere, of any type.
So I went back last weekend, lusting after those two perfect fruits. Sadly, neither was on tap, and of the remaining beers, the only exceptional thing I found was a Lambic when combined with a Stout. Very, very good. But no Rye Stout and no Schwarzbier.
Thought this would add to the discussion.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-beer-grows-share-114-b-us-market/3341312002/
I don't recall saying I never try new beers--typically when I'm out to a new taproom or brewery I'll try a flight to determine what I might like, but there's a funny thing that goes on with this.
All the "famous" beers I've had haven't been all that great. A local bar had a keg of Zombie Dust delivered, made a big deal about the tapping of said keg. I of course, never having had ZD before, thought I'd like to have a pint of this supposed nectar of the gods.
Well. Can't figure out what all the shouting is about. A bitter IPA. Big deal. I've had them before.
There's another aspect of this that I think most people don't consider. That is, if you rank all beers and you find a few that are at the very top, what are the odds in trying a new beer that you'll exceed what that is? Answer: very, very low. Yeah, there might be something better, but that's not the way to bet.
Knowing this, when I'm out to enjoy myself, I want to enjoy myself--with an exceptional beer, not a hope and a prayer which almost certainly will not pan out.
I'm not too cheap...I'm just realistic. I've had KBS, nice beer, but it didn't do that much for me. I certainly wouldn't pay more than standard fare for it. Instead, I'd rather have a beer I know is great, to my palate, than simply wade through a thicket of similar beers.
Now, YMMV. I suspect it does, in fact. I like what I like, and after having tried many, many beers, I've found a few that to me are exceptional. And when I go out, the last thing I want to do is turn down a known exceptional beer for a hope and a prayer.
But if that's not your way, it's not your way. People like what they like. That doesn't make them wrong.
I want to enjoy myself, and drinking an exceptional beer is how I like to do that. Grabbing something other than that because it might be better, when the odds of that happening are between slim and none, isn't my idea of a good time, especially when I have to slog my way through the rest of that pint. Others might have different ways of enjoying themselves, and that's fine too.
*******
Was in Asheville NC last weekend, and made a specific pilgrimmage back to Pisgah Brewing in Black Mountain. I was there in June, had a Rye Stout that was just to die for--and I'm not a Stout guy--and a Schwarzbier that was the best commercial lager I've ever had anywhere, of any type.
So I went back last weekend, lusting after those two perfect fruits. Sadly, neither was on tap, and of the remaining beers, the only exceptional thing I found was a Lambic when combined with a Stout. Very, very good. But no Rye Stout and no Schwarzbier.
The thing to remember is that both those beers were exceptional when they came out. It's possible that everything that can be done with beer has been done, but I doubt it. There will be new exceptional and revolutionary beers coming in the future. How fun would it be to be to have one of those before they become the rage? To go someplace, try their flagship beer and realize you just had a sip of something truly amazing.
I drink mostly my homebrew, and I don't drink something new just because it's new, but I do look for opportunities to try something unique and different.
Most of the time I'm in a taproom or bar I'm wishing I had a pint of my own homebrew instead of what is on tap. I try different things here and there, hoping against hope for something exceptional, but it's not. And then I have to decide what I want in a pint.
I like about 95% of the beer I try.
My opinion is that there is really no such thing as great beer. There are great moments when you drink the right beer in the right moment and have a great experience. But beer is beer most of the time. Making good beer is something that any competent brewer can accomplish.
I feel like, reading this thread, where I like 95% of the beer I drink most of you would say I must just be drinking meh beer 95% of the time and liking it. Not going to argue, but I think there really isn't too much straight up bad beer out there. If a person gets to the point of opening a brewery they probably know how to make good beer.
Regarding the context and setting being important (the "great moments"), I generally agree with you. The right context can make poor beer better or good beer great. Or good beer bad.
Regarding the rest though...
You're either living in an unusually strong beer area, not exposed to enough, are really easy to please, or have low standards.
No offense. You're entitled to your opinion and to like whatever you like. But your opinion in this is very much a minority.
Because one thing that's almost universally agreed upon (regardless of one's position on the "bubble") is that there's a lot of substandard craft beer out there.
To the point that the Brewers Association had a committee/campaign/something I don't recall set up specifically to help combat the rampant quality problem by providing resources to BA members to up their quality game.
I've noticed that very few breweries distribute to Oklahoma. That's gotta be frustrating for the Okies.
I talked to a head brewer from a small brewery at a beer fest in February and asked him about what he does for water profiles. He looked at me like I was an alien and said they just used carbon filtered tap water. No effort to manage the minerals or pH! I've had their beers and that explains a lot.
I am not of the opinion that water/pH is necessarily the problem. If the water is good, IMO, managing the minerals and pH are not necessarily the cause of mediocre beers. I home brewed in a community where our water was considered the best in the area for drinking. I brewed there for about 7 years, in the 7th I got a water report from Ward Labs, treated 2 brews and the results were indistinguishable from the previous. I would also rate my beers equally with most craft breweries. My friends have said my beers are very good, and have always asked for more. I have moved and do notice a more variation in my beers here. Some are very good and some are just good. I have yet to take a pH reading in any of my brewing.
I firmly believe that all the hype of water treatment and pH control is overblown. Could it make my already very good beers better? I will concede that it probably would, but hasn't been important enough to spend time or money on. YMMV.
I have a couple comments about this. First, a given community may have water that's great for IPAs, but I wouldn't want to use it as-is for a RIS (or vice versa). Water makeup and pH do make a difference and I can tell the difference in two IPAs brewed with radically different water profiles. Second, it wasn't so much that he used filtered tap water, it was that he was unaware that it was something that should be considered. For a pro brewing at a micro-brewery, that was shocking. I work hard to brew the best beer I can and I've got serious beer snobs who want to pitch in and open a brewery with me. I can't imagine leaving that stone unturned as a pro trying to make money in an ever-more competative market.
There are plenty of home brewers that choose not to actively manage their water profiles, but most are at least aware of the concepts.
Well two of my very best beer, brewed with the same water, without treatment were an IPA and A RIS.... Can there be a difference or improvement? Probably. Is it worth it for me to spend the time and money to do at this time? NO. Are my beers bad because I don't amend my water or adjust for pH? Again NO!
You said he looked at you like an alien. That doesn't mean that he wasn't aware of the concept...
Is it possible that it is only that you don't like the beers that brewer produces and that might not be consensus?
I am not of the opinion that water/pH is necessarily the problem. If the water is good, IMO, managing the minerals and pH are not necessarily the cause of mediocre beers. <snip>
I firmly believe that all the hype of water treatment and pH control is overblown. Could it make my already very good beers better? I will concede that it probably would, but hasn't been important enough to spend time or money on. YMMV.
Enter your email address to join: