That looks like pellicle to me! What do you think??

[suitbrewing]

Below picture is of an american blonde which has been fermenting in my fermentation fridge for 3 weeks.

It is now sitting @ 2c waiting to be keged.

The beer went into the fermentation fridge after my 1st 100% brett beer and although I used a clean beer only vessel and good sanitisation procedurea it was openned at least one for the dry hops.

Do you think its the brett??

 

[ChefRex]

Some sort of infection, RIP beer!

 

[suitbrewing]

Taste is pretty good actually!
I am posting more for future reference.
You know so as to better understand the cause!

 

[andrewmaixner]

Yes, that looks like a pellicle. There is no way to know if it is brett from a visual:

Pellicles are often formed by Brettanomyces, Acetobacter [3], and other gram-negative bacteria such as some species of Acinetobacter, Escherichia, Burkholderia, Dickeya, Gluconacetobacter, Pseudomonas, Salmonella, Shewanella, and Vibrio. Gram-positive bacteria Bacillus subtillis can also form a pellicle [4]. It can also be formed by Saccharomyces in rare occasions (most likely wild species more so than brewer's yeast), and it might be possible for Lactobacillus and Pediococcus to form a pellicle (according to Matt Humbard; see reference), however other references have not been found as far as we know [2]. Pellicles are not formed by and should not be confused with mold.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Pellicle

Since you are kegging, don't worry about it.

 

[ChefRex]

If it still tastes good, keg and drink quickly.
Can't say I didn't on the only infected batch I've have had, knock on wood as I brewed two batches today, it was an expensive batch witch I had wanted to bottle and age, YMMV.

 

[suitbrewing]

Should I treat this as a mixed fermentation beer. ie should I use my sour beer racking equipment.
Is this beer now equivalent to a beer fermented using either mixed or brett culture in terms of future sanitisation??

Some specific concerns:
- Infecting the keg and draft lines
- Infected fermentation barrel/airlock/dry hop sock
- Infected fermentation fridge

Obviously I don't want to continued cross contaminating future batches

 

[andrewmaixner]

In theory:
plastic and rubber liquid contact surfaces, including keg seals: yes, separate them as mixed-fermentation equipment
glass/steel: no, sanitize as normal
air/fridge: no, that's going way too far unless you are looking for an excuse to buy another one

Depends on what you want to do -- I wouldn't personally worry about about the keg beyond standard cleaning, personally.

 

[suitbrewing]

Thanks for the feedback

I already have a full set of sour equipment (plastic and rubber), so if possible I would like to "reclaim" my fermenter, airlock etc. I do understand that there are more rigorous sanitising procedures which could "disinfect ever the sour equipment. This is my main fermenter. Its the Speidel barrel which is better quality than my standard buckets. Its not scratched which should in principle help with reclaiming.

Also would spraying the inside of the fridge help to remove any brett??

 

[andrewmaixner]

I have "reclaimed" two HDPE buckets by literally boiling them, but them I'm lucky enough to have a ridiculously large and tall boil kettle. There was a wild yeast which might have been in them, even after a good wash with a Mark's keg washer, plus a starsan soak. (I didn't want to risk ruining more batches nor experimenting, so I boiled several other things at the same time as the buckets also.)

I have heard of others people just filling HDPE with boiling water to heat-sanitize.

do NOT try that with glass, or PET, or other plastics that are not heat tolerant!

 

[MaryB]

Bleach solution on plastic will take care of any bugs, rinse well several times after soaking overnight. I have seen different bleaches recommend different concentrations so read the bottle! 24 hour soak... I had fruit flies get into a bucket I forgot to wash, 3 days later whatever was left in the bottom was smelly vinegar. Did the bleach soak to the rim, soaked the lid, then rinsed well. Took the spigot off and then soaked that opening and closing it a couple times a day to work bleach into everywhere followed by a good rinse. Star san then reassemble bucket.

 

[suitbrewing]

Yes I have read about bleach soak before.
I have pure 15% sodium hypochlorite that I use for my pool.

Its more like 12% by the time it reaches me as liquid chlorine is unstable.
Would you have a clue by how much I need to dissolve it??

I will fill the barrel with the solution and keep it over night. I can place all the parts (airlock, seals, cups, etc) in a separate bucket in order to get them fully soaked.

How about the fridge, should I wipe with chlorine solution and then starsan.

As the beer will be keged for a festival, should I soak in chlorine the coupler, draft line, keg spear (sanke keg) or is chlorine corrosive to SS.

 

[MaryB]

I am not familiar with that concentrated a bleach. I use regular old Clorox liquid laundry bleach and follow the label direction to make sanitizer.

 

[suitbrewing]

According to the below source I am looking for 200ppm

http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf

In accordance with Poolmath to get 200ppm from 12.5% sodium hypochlorite, I should use 50ml for 30L

https://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Any comments ???

Also any feedback on sanitising the fermentation fridge??

 

[suitbrewing]

Hi guys

The infected speidel barrel is now empty so I am about to proceed with the disinfection.

Any feedback on my sodium hypocloride recipe above??

 

[andrewmaixner]

Inquiring minds want to know, how did the beer turn out? What was the sensory profile, FG, etc?

As for the Bleach concentration, Palmer, first edition, says:

Bleach
The cheapest and most readily available sanitizing solution is made by adding 1 tablespoon of bleach to 1 gallon of water (4 ml per liter). Let the items soak for 20 minutes, and then drain. Rinsing is supposedly not necessary at this concentration, but many brewers, myself included, rinse with some boiled water anyway to be sure of no off-flavors from the chlorine.

and

Cleaning Plastic ... The main thing to keep in mind when cleaning plastics is that they may adsorb odors and stains from the cleaning products you use. Dish detergents are your best bet for general cleaning, but scented detergents should be avoided. Bleach is useful for heavy duty cleaning, but the odor can remain and bleach tends to cloud vinyl tubing. Percarbonate cleaners have the benefit of cleaning as well as bleach without the odor and clouding problems.

I would personally try an iodine solution before a bleach solution, though as I mentioned, I used heat for my HDPE issue. A Spidel would be a pricy thing to lose due to absorbed bleach odor.
Iodine vs starsan info: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=26846.0
Also talks about Peracetic, which I have not personally used yet.


Here's an interesting article on StarSan not killing yeasts, but being used for an acid wash to prevent bacteria propogation:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/03/acid-washing.html