Tchechomalt floor-malted Pilsen - enzymes?

[sibelman]

Making another cucumber Pilsner today (cukes go in the fermenter at high krausen). I'm trying a new malt: Techcomalt floor-malted pilsner malt, which I stumbled onto at my LHBS. I also added ~5oz. leftover Weyermann melanoidin to perhaps strengthen the head.

In an excess of caution, I did a 25-minute 124°F protein rest, then took the temp up to 148 for an hour. Starch test looks like it was done before the mash: so dark! I haven't seen a failed starch test in years. I'm recirculating at 153 now, hoping there are in fact some enzymes in this malt. I'm kinda worried.

Does anyone have experience with this malt?

EDIT: Saccharification now at 135 minutes: conversion still incomplete though not nearly as bad. Giving it another half hour.

 

[sibelman]

Advice needed! Conversion is still less than complete after two hours. While the first test at one hour was horrible, the iodine test now shows only a little darkening, but still a far cry from my usual 2-row experience of zero darkening after a much shorter mash.

I have no enzymes available, except those in my supply of 2-row malt. Should I dump this? Proceed and hope for the best? Go buy some enzymes, making my brew day crazy long?

 

[Miraculix]

Advice needed! Conversion is still less than complete after two hours. While the first test at one hour was horrible, the iodine test now shows only a little darkening, but still a far cry from my usual 2-row experience of zero darkening after a much shorter mash.

I have no enzymes available, except those in my supply of 2-row malt. Should I dump this? Proceed and hope for the best? Go buy some enzymes, making my brew day crazy long?

Just add another ten to twenty percent of pale malt, preferably chit or pilsner (real one) but any other pale should do as well. Mix well, wait twenty minutes, done.

 

[sibelman]

Just add another ten to twenty percent of pale malt, preferably chit or pilsner (real one) but any other pale should do as well. Mix well, wait twenty minutes, done.

Danke, @Miraculix!

I had given up and commenced the sparge. Testing what's in the kettle so far shows no remaining starch.

So I'm going to pretend everything is okay rather than milling and adding malt, but I'm grateful for the suggestion. Fingers crossed for a nice, clear Pilsner.

It would seem this Tchecomalt is seriously low in enzymes. I did mill it quite fine - but that shouldn't adversely affect conversion, right? (Also, I seem unable to consistently spell Tchecomalt correctly )

 

[Miraculix]

Danke, @Miraculix!

I had given up and commenced the sparge. Testing what's in the kettle so far shows no remaining starch.

So I'm going to pretend everything is okay rather than milling and adding malt, but I'm grateful for the suggestion. Fingers crossed for a nice, clear Pilsner.

It would seem this Tchecomalt is seriously low in enzymes. I did mill it quite fine - but that shouldn't adversely affect conversion, right? (Also, I seem unable to consistently spell Tchecomalt correctly )

Finer grind is actually a good thing for conversion.... I have no idea what might have happened here. The malt must be not the best. Usually, the paler the malt,the higher the enzymatic activity.

 

[Miraculix]

I have done 30% pilsner malt and 70% wheat flour mashes that were converted in less than 30 minutes, just for comparison.

 

[sibelman]

Country Malt says the diastatic power is 250. Weird. I'm not encouraged to use this malt again. Thanks again for your responses.

 

[day_trippr]

250? Skeptical cat is skeptical. That's well above distillers malt...

 

[Witherby]

Looks like a double or triple decoction is needed.

 

[doug293cz]

Some of the starch in this malt may have a higher gelatinization temperature than typical base malts. This would slow conversion way down at lower mash temps (you can't hydrolyze starch until it has been gelatinized.) I suspect you still had sufficient amylase enzymes for further conversion, even at the end of your long mash. It might work better in a step mash with one of the rests at ~158°F, or in a decoction mash as mentioned by @Witherby .

Brew on

 

[rmr9]

I keep reading the title as “technomalt”. This may be one of those rare cases where decoction mashing really is still called for. Kind of cool in that regard but only if you’re planning for it. I can see how it makes for a stressful brewday otherwise!

 

[sibelman]

It might work better in a step mash with one of the rests at ~158°F

Maybe. I ended up with only three steps and was fearful that too much heat would denature the seemingly lame enzymes. Oh well, some lessons learned.

I'm still hoping the resulting beer will clear. Any way to drop out starch? I'm pretty illiterate re finings and such.

 

[Witherby]

Maybe. I ended up with only three steps and was fearful that too much heat would denature the seemingly lame enzymes. Oh well, some lessons learned.

I'm still hoping the resulting beer will clear. Any way to drop out starch? I'm pretty illiterate re finings and such.

I’ve already suggested decoction so I might as well suggest a nice long lagering period to go with it. It works for the Czechs!

I’m going to have to be on the lookout for this malt just to give it a try.

 

[hopsnmalt]

Degrees Lintner = WK (Windisch Kolbach of 250 for Tchecomalt floor malted pilsner + 16 / 3.5 = 76 Degrees Lintner (low for a pilsner malt)

Best Malz Pilsner = WK 300 + 16 / 3.5
= 90 Degrees Linter

Most highly malted European pilsner malts range between 90 - 100 Degrees Lintner.

 

[Pivoman]

I’m anxious to try it. Back in the day when the infamous St. Patrick’s of Texas still sold homebrew ingredients they sold Budvar Undermodified Pilsner Malt. I still have that catalog, it was $0,99 per pound!! Oh, the good ole days……
Where did you purchase your Tchecomalt from? I’m anxious to try it.

 

[hopsnmalt]

I’m anxious to try it. Back in the day when the infamous St. Patrick’s of Texas still sold homebrew ingredients they sold Budvar Undermodified Pilsner Malt. I still have that catalog, it was $0,99 per pound!! Oh, the good ole days……
Where did you purchase your Tchecomalt from? I’m anxious to try it.

Any homebrew store that purchases malt from the large wholesale distributor BSG can get you Tchecomalt - floor malted pilsner, standard (saladin box) pilsner, Munich, Vienna, and Crystal.

 

[bwible]

I didn’t have undermodified or low enzyme malt but I was recently doing a beer with 20% adjuncts. For extra conversion I added about .75 pound of distiller’s malt. Got great conversion out of that.

 

[Miraculix]

I didn’t have undermodified or low enzyme malt but I was recently doing a beer with 20% adjuncts. For extra conversion I added about .75 pound of distiller’s malt. Got great conversion out of that.

I'm doing 70% adjunct brews just with 30% Pilsner malt. Works well, no distillers malt needed (but certainly doesn't hurt either).

 

[bwible]

I'm doing 70% adjunct brews just with 30% Pilsner malt. Works well, no distillers malt needed (but certainly doesn't hurt either).

I just made a cold ipa for the first time. I used 20% minute rice. Its the first time I brewed a cold ipa, the first beer I ever made with rice, and the first time I ever used minute rice. I know it says to mash low and it wants high attenuation. So it was something I wanted to try. Started at 1.065 and by my tilt it went to 1.004. Not always dead accurate though. Its being cold crashed now in preparation for the closed transfer to second keg.

 

[Miraculix]

I just made a cold ipa for the first time. I used 20% minute rice. Its the first time I brewed a cold ipa, the first beer I ever made with rice, and the first time I ever used minute rice. I know it says to mash low and it wants high attenuation. So it was something I wanted to try. Started at 1.065 and by my tilt it went to 1.004. Not always dead accurate though. Its being cold crashed now in preparation for the closed transfer to second keg.

Rice is me favourite adjunct. It makes every beer so nicely crisp! And it somehow leads to faaaaaaaast clearing beer. Not sure how it does this, but it's the only adjunct I know is that does this. Even pure sugar doesn't do that.

 

[Wayne1]

At least in the Denver area, Tchecnomalt, is distributed by the Country Malt Group, which is part of Soufflet Malt, the world's largest malt company. They are also the exclusive supplier of Great Western Malting. If your Home Brew Shop has Great Western, they should be able to get you Tchecnomalt products.

Last week, the Country Malt reps stopped by the brewpub and offered to give us all the grain we need to brew a batch using Tchenomalt. I am thinking of maybe a double decoction Tmave. I will post details if that happens.