Stupid question... Mash water profile or Mash + Sparge water profile??

[MPBeer]

I'm using EZ water calculator, and I'm always confused if I should look at the Mash Water Profile, or Mash + Sparge Water Profile. I'm trying to brew a NEIPA and I'm looking for 100~150 Cl : 50 SO4. I added 2 gram of Gypsum and 4 gram of CaCl2, and I've already got tons of Chloride and Sulfate at my Mash Water Profile. However, after the sparge water is added, the number goes down significantly. Should I adjust my addition looking at the latter one and add more?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Why not add minerals to the sparge water as well?

 

[cactusgarrett]

Getting your mash water content in order is mainly for pH purposes. Adding salts to sparge water is unnecessary, provided you can keep you pH in line so as not to let the grainbed pH rise too much. The Mash + Sparge profile is for overall flavor purposes - what you're alluding to regarding your Cl:SO4 ratio. This final results is what influences the final beer profile - bright, hoppy, malty, etc. For me, I:

1) get my mash pH in line with salts
2) acidify my sparge water (no salt additions)
3) add the second portion of salt to the boil to get an overall salt profile for taste

tl;dr: salt the mash for proper pH, acidify the sparge water to avoid a rise in pH during sparging, salt the boil to obtain a desire flavor profile.

 

[MPBeer]

Getting your mash water content in order is mainly for pH purposes. Adding salts to sparge water is unnecessary, provided you can keep you pH in line so as not to let the grainbed pH rise too much. The Mash + Sparge profile is for overall flavor purposes - what you're alluding to regarding your Cl:SO4 ratio. This final results is what influences the final beer profile - bright, hoppy, malty, etc. For me, I:

1) get my mash pH in line with salts
2) acidify my sparge water (no salt additions)
3) add the second portion of salt to the boil to get an overall salt profile for taste

tl;dr: salt the mash for proper pH, acidify the sparge water to avoid a rise in pH during sparging, salt the boil to obtain a desire flavor profile.

Thanks! So... for example. If I want to add like 10g of gypsum but the mash ph would be low, I'll only add some for my mash ph to be in 5.2-5.6 range, then add the leftovers at boiling to get my desired mineral contents. Is this correct?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you are looking for 100-150 ppm chloride and 50 ppm sulfate for an NEIPA (as per your original post), then adding 10 grams of gypsum is not at all the proper means to accomplish that. You want to add more calcium chloride, not gypsum.

As an aside, acids like lactic and phosphoric should be used to bring the mash pH into the desired range. Minerals are for flavor. Using minerals alone to control mash pH is not generally a good idea, as the pH effect of adding the likes of calcium chloride or gypsum is much less definitively predictable than for adding acid, plus the flavor effect of using tons of mineralization by which to modify mash pH will often prove to be less than beneficial.

 

[ajdelange]

To which I'd add that it takes a lot of calcium and twice as much magnesium to achieve a relatively small pH shift. In normal brewing one can almost ignore the pH shift caused by Ca++ and Mg++. But for those of you brewing Novo Mega Hopile Super Double Magnum IPAs with insane amounts of calcium it must be considered.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Using minerals alone to control mash pH is not generally a good idea.

Good point; let me clarify my process to avoid misunderstandings:
I always need to dilute my water (mash & sparge) with at least 50% RO/DI. The salts I add to my mash are more for for mash health rather than pH levels. I still use lactic in the mash for that.

 

[MPBeer]

If you are looking for 100-150 ppm chloride and 50 ppm sulfate for an NEIPA (as per your original post), then adding 10 grams of gypsum is not at all the proper means to accomplish that. You want to add more calcium chloride, not gypsum.

As an aside, acids like lactic and phosphoric should be used to bring the mash pH into the desired range. Minerals are for flavor. Using minerals alone to control mash pH is not generally a good idea, as the pH effect of adding the likes of calcium chloride or gypsum is much less definitively predictable than for adding acid, plus the flavor effect of using tons of mineralization by which to modify mash pH will often prove to be less than beneficial.

Oh was just trying to see if I'm getting it right with random numbers. I've used 6g Gypsum and 5g CaCl for my NEIPA last time, but I'm trying to bring it down to 2g Gypsum and 5g CaCl this time since I got some harsh bitterness from the last batch. I'm adding acidulated malts to adjust my ph down. So would it be better to adjust my water after sparging? I've been adjusting my mash water before I mash in till now.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I generally add minerals to both my strike and sparge water, though occasionally I have front loaded all of them into the strike water (the latter being the case only for something on the order of a Bohemian Pilsner, where the sum total of mineralization is very low). You are also free to add flavor minerals to the boil, though I personally do not do this.