Stuck Fermentation -- Brandon O's Graff

[mcwilcr]

So the title says it all and I have exhausted just about every way I know how to combat the issue.

I started this batch on 1/15/12 with an OG = 1.060. I followed Brandon O's recipe almost exactly with one glaring mistake of sorts, the cider I chose being Tamarack Farms Apple cider, 100% juice has preservatives in it. it has been 3 weeks now and I am at an SG = 1.052. So far I have agitated the cake several times, moved the carboy to a warmer location (holding at around 67-68 deg. at all times), pitched another sachet of Nottingham, and added some yeast nutrient and yeast energizer. I really do not want to use a different yeast if I don't absolutely have to but at this point I I am asking the great HBT gods/goddesses for any and all suggestions to try next.

 

[Tw0fish]

You're hard up, brother!

Is the preservative potassium sorbate? Because I has an idea.. Sorbate interrupts yeast reproduction. Why not start another batch of Graff or cider, wait til it really gets running and then mix the two? You'll have an established colony of yeast (which, worst case scenario, will eat sugars but not reproduce) and further dilute the preservatives at the same time.

If it's a 5g batch, maybe start 2.5g of it the right way and then throw half of your stuck batch in on top.. when that's out, do it again with the other half.

 

[mcwilcr]

Yeah, its got potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate. That's not a bad idea you have there. This would require me to hold off on another brew I was planning but I guess if there are no other options.

 

[Tw0fish]

I've never had graff, let alone virgin graff. I trust it's best with alcohol in it Mind you I'm softballing here - be sure to come back and tell us how it turned out!

 

[mcwilcr]

I've never had graff before either so I'm really hoping I can resolve the issue. Virgin its not that bad just like cider with a bit of wort flavor in the background. If and when the issue is solved I'll certainly post it here.


In the mean time... anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Instead of brewing up a full second batch, you could get a gallon of juice, bring the gravity up to like 1.055, pitch a full packet or vial of the same yeast you're using in the graff, slap an airlock on top of the bottle and let it go for a few days until it's developed a yeast cake on the bottom. Then shake the juice bottle up and dump the whole gallon in fermenter with the stuck graff. Make sure this gallon of juice is preservative free.

Basically you're make a big starter. I've done this method before - only with 3 gallons of preservative juice. I supposed you could drain/siphon off a gallon from the fermenter if space is tight. I also suppose you could use less juice and add yeast nutrient/energizer. Good luck!

 

[divi2323]

You didn't mention your batch size. Me personally I would do as described above with a separate full gallon of Apple juice and throw a new yeast colony in it. When it starts roaring then drop the whole thing in your batch. This is your best bet to get it started.


Other alternatives:

Toss it out.
Drink it as is.
Freeze it in 1 gallon jugs and use it to top off future batches.
Mix it in to future batches (in 1 gallon quantities) that are nearing completion to help backsweeten before bottling.

 

[mcwilcr]

It is a 5 gallon batch. My plan is to first try the 1 gallon of fermenting cider and if that does not work I will try making a second batch and mix them together.

 

[mcwilcr]

UPDATE: So far I have attempted to pitch a 1 gallon jug of fermenting cider that I added to 2.5 gallons of the original stuff roughly 24 hours after pitching the yeast when fermentation was highly active. Immediately after I mixed them fermentation appeared to continue but within 24 hours fermentation started slowing. I have mixed in the rest of the sorbated cider since I need my additional fermenter tomorrow. I took a gravity reading tonight and the 6 gallons are at 1.042 which means I am getting some fermentation however slow so I am going to just sit on it for a couple months if I can and see what happens.

I have never kept up with something fermenting this slow before, any idea what the effects will be of such a slow fermentation assuming the cider does actually ferment out all the way eventually?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

With a extremely slow fermentation, my first thoughts would be the increased risk of infection. I'm no scientist, but I would think that 2-3% alcohol wouldn't be enough to fight off the funkies.

You have more patience than I ever would. If a new packet of yeast didn't get it going after a couple of weeks, I'd yell a couple of expletives...kick one of my dogs and free up the carboy for something else. It's an expensive mistake, but now you know.

 

[mcwilcr]

The increased risk of infection is definitely something I am worried about but I think I should be able to identify that if it happens. I'm more curious if there are off flavors that I may have to worry about purely because of the slow fermentation.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

I agree with you on the off flavors. I guess only time will tell. I used Nottingham on a batch of Graff recently and got some banana aromas. It never got up above 68ºF and only for a day during peak fermentation, but I've switched to S-04 to see if I can eliminate them. Nottingham works well in my simple ciders, maybe it was just a fluke.

 

[mcwilcr]

I wouldn't blame the yeast in this case at least. I did the equivalent of tying its hands behind its back, threw it in the Hudson and asked it to swim to the other side. I am well aware that Potassium Sorbate is a no no when it comes to fermentation but when I saw 100% juice I stopped reading. Lesson learned!

As for Nottingham, I threw a hydrated sachet in a batch of a house ale recipe I am trying out and within 5 hours I was seeing signs of fermentation. 12 hours later when I looked at it this morning its rolling along. I cant complain about that.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

The Hudson? I guess it all depends on which side you threw it in and which side you asked it to swim to.

If you've ever seen the movie Mulholland Falls, there's a great scene from Chaz Palminteri about NY and NJ.

 

[mcwilcr]

I checked on my graff today totally prepared to dump it and free up the carboy for something else when to my surprise the reeding came in at 1.018! I'm going to let it clear a bit longer then go ahead and bottle it. Not sure if I will try and carb it or just leave it still. Hydro sample was not half bad as it is though.

 

[cancerousbull]

Im having same problem... followed Brandons recipe, using fresh pressed cider. no perservatives. SG 1.070 with no activity (safe ale 05) for a week (7days), i checked gravity and to my surprise gravity was the same. temp was on the cooler side 64-65. repitched yeast brought the temp to 66-70 for another week and gravity now 1.060... smells good tastes like cider with a bit of wort. should i just sit on it for awhile longer? any help or suggestions...

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Your temps should be fine. Something seems to be inhibiting your yeast reproduction. I would try creating a starter from apple juice and a sachet of yeast for about 6-12 hours...make sure that is going strong and really active then dump that in your primary.

It should have dropped more than .010 points in 2 weeks. Primary Fermentation should be done by now.

 

[cancerousbull]

I know right...
i will give that a try. should i be concered with the cider spoiling?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

It's been two weeks but if you were careful with sanitation, you should be ok. You'll know when you have an infection. If you can get it moving again, you'll be fine.

 

[cancerousbull]

Thank you