Stuck Bohemian Lager Beer

[eryk4381]

Its been almost a month and for some reason I cannot get this beer finished so I can lager it. I started at about 1.058 and made a starter which calculated at about 700 billion cells (should suffice yes... ) but I cant get it down any further than about 1.028. That seems real high to me???? I tried bumping it up to about 68 degrees (the high end of the fermentation for this yeast) to wake those guys up but im getting nothing. Any thoughts?

I'm using Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager

NOTE: I did try a new thing with this one and that is the airlock is those new silicone waterless caps. Not sure if that would even be a problem.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-bung-silicone-breathable.html

 

[GoeHaarden]

How are you measuring gravity? Mash Temp? Grain bill?

 

[eryk4381]

only 11 lbs of grain..German Pils, Carafoam and A little Vienna. Im measuring with a beer thief and a hydrometer.
These are all my normal processes and its been in my regulated ferm tank.

 

[GoeHaarden]

only 11 lbs of grain..German Pils, Carafoam and A little Vienna. Im measuring with a beer thief and a hydrometer.
These are all my normal processes and its been in my regulated ferm tank.

Just trying to rule stuff out here. How did you make your starter?

 

[Dcpcooks]

The stopper didn’t have any effect on fermentation.

I’d assume you only used a few percent each of carafoam and Vienna, is that accurate?
You needed at least 500b cells so your starter should have been enough.

What was your mash temp? The mash is where you create your fermentability.

 

[eryk4381]

Mash Temp was about 154 @ 60 min. Yes the Vienna and Cara where the small add to this one for sure. It was mostly German Pils

 

[eryk4381]

Just trying to rule stuff out here. How did you make your starter?

Started was made with Light DME (Boiled in the calculated amount of water and yeast was pitched after temp was below 70) NOTE: I use beersmith for all calculations and to store/create my recipes as it is consistent and accurate.

 

[eryk4381]

I notice the yeast cake is on the bottom and I had tried many times over the 3 weeks to shake the hell out of the beer to re circulate the yeasties to wake those bastards up but lately its not "moving the needle" so to speak.


Batch Size: 5.00 gal Style: Bohemian Pilsner ( 2B)
Boil Size: 5.71 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 4.7 SRM Equipment: My Equipment
Bitterness: 37.8 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.058 (14.2° P) Mash Profile: My Mash
Est FG: 1.017 SG (4.3° P) Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
ABV: 5.4% Taste Rating: 30.0


Ingredients
Amount Name Type #
7 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
3 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2
8.00 oz Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) Grain 3
8.00 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 4
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [13.0%] - Boil 60 min Hops 5
1.50 oz Saaz [3.8%] - Boil 20 min Hops 6
1.50 oz Saaz [3.8%] - Boil 5 min Hops 7
1 pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) Yeast 8


Notes
Estimated OG: 1.055 Estimated FG: 1.012 Estimated IBUs: 40 Estimated ABV: 5.7% ALL-GRAIN RECIPE MALT/GRAIN BILL 7 lb (3.2 kg) German Pilsner 3 lb (1.4 kg) Vienna 0.5 lb (227 g) Acidulated malt 0.5 lb (227 g) Carafoam HOPS SCHEDULE 0.5 oz (14 g) Sorachi Ace at 60 minutes 1.5 oz (42 g) Saaz at 20 minutes 1.5 oz (42 g) Saaz at 5 minutes DIRECTIONS Mash the grains for 60 minutes at 154°F (68°C). Boil for 60 minutes following the hops schedule. For a gluten-reduced beer, add 10 ml (one vial) of White Labs Clarity Ferm when you pitch the yeast. YEAST Bohemian Lager (Wyeast 2000 / 2001 / 2278) (White Labs WLP 800 / 802)


Here is the recipe and also, to make this even stranger.... I only ended up with about 3.75 gallons due to my screw up with the measure of loss with a new false bottom I was testing that doesn't get out all the wort on the bottom. So in theory, that beer should have been rage fermenting!!

 

[springinloose1]

If a temp increase didn't affect gravity, try shaking the fermenter. Rousing the yeast that way may get the guys back in action

 

[springinloose1]

Ah, crap... posted at the same time... nevermind shaking the fermenter, lol. I think she's done. 154 may be a tad hot... 148 might have got you where you wanted to be.

 

[eryk4381]

Ah, crap... posted at the same time... nevermind shaking the fermenter, lol. I think she's done. 154 may be a tad hot... 148 might have got you where you wanted to be.

Tad hot? For which grain? I usually use similar temps. Its been sitting at 68 for a week now and I have randomly been shaking it a bit but I am also wondering if I inject some O2 in there to maybe help?

 

[Upthewazzu]

154° for a bohemian pils is a great temp. I did one recently very similar to OP with same yeast, mashed at 154°, and it got down to 1.013.Turned out very good.

Is it possible that your thermometer was off and you really mashed at 164° or higher? That's about the only thing I can think of.

Oh, and don't inject any O2 at this point!

It may be heresy, but you could try dumping some 1056 or a packet of US-05 in there.

 

[eryk4381]

154° for a bohemian pils is a great temp. I did one recently very similar to OP with same yeast, mashed at 154°, and it got down to 1.013.Turned out very good.

Is it possible that your thermometer was off and you really mashed at 164° or higher? That's about the only thing I can think of.

Oh, and don't inject any O2 at this point!

It may be heresy, but you could try dumping some 1056 or a packet of US-05 in there.

Yeah I guess I can try a packet of US-05. That should work at the temp its at now correct? I havent had to dump additional yeast in awhile.

 

[Upthewazzu]

Yeah I guess I can try a packet of US-05. That should work at the temp its at now correct? I havent had to dump additional yeast in awhile.

Yeah, it should be fine. Maybe raise it to 70° just to be sure, and to cut down on the peachy esters that US-05 is known for.

 

[Dcpcooks]

No 02 at this point you’ll oxidize the beer past a point of return.

If you choose to add more yeast you should make a starter and pitch it at high krausen. That’s the best way to jump start a stuck fermentation. I’d use the same yeast or a different lager yeast.

 

[eryk4381]

Maybe using the same yeast might be better to keep the flavor profile from straying..but you think another started is necessary? With all of 200 Bil cells per package and only ~18 points to go?

 

[Dcpcooks]

It’s only 100 billion cells per pack! It’s more about pitching really active yeast to help restart fermentation.

I’d keep consistent with a Lager or pills yeast so you still get some benefit from lagering. Ale yeast will drop out once it’s cold.

 

[eryk4381]

It’s only 100 billion cells per pack! It’s more about pitching really active yeast to help restart fermentation.

I’d keep consistent with a Lager or pills yeast so you still get some benefit from lagering. Ale yeast will drop out once it’s cold.

Damnit! your right! Ok ill get this started and pitch.....see what i did there

 

[Upthewazzu]

How alcohol tolerant is lager yeast? Some yeasts will just straight up die (or go to sleep) if pitched into the presence of alcohol.

I'm interested to see if pitching more lager yeast will work. Make sure to report back!

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Man that's surprising. Every-time I use that Boho strain the ferment goes so nuts I can barely keep the temp in check. It does seem to do okay even if it gets to 56-58, but I like to keep it at 52.

That said, did you adjust your hydro reading to match the lower temp? That should lower it a couple points.

 

[eryk4381]

Man that's surprising. Every-time I use that Boho strain the ferment goes so nuts I can barely keep the temp in check. It does seem to do okay even if it gets to 56-58, but I like to keep it at 52.

That said, did you adjust your hydro reading to match the lower temp? That should lower it a couple points.

yeah i didn't adjust the hydro numbers so it is prob sitting at about 1026 yeah. Do you guys think I should take it back down to 60 degrees then before pitching this because its still sitting at 68 right now.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Next batch mash between 148- 152. That will yield shorter chain sugars that are more fermentable. That will yield a lighter body and better attenuation which will give you more of a classic pilsner body

 

[springinloose1]

Next batch mash between 148- 152. That will yield shorter chain sugars that are more fermentable. That will yield a lighter body and better attenuation which will give you more of a classic pilsner body

Sorry for the delay getting back but this post sums up what I was thinking. Lower temps gets you more fermentable sugars. That's why I was thinking 154 mash temp was a little warm. But try adding more yeast, it certainly won't hurt.

 

[eryk4381]

That all makes sense and I will report back as soon as I get some results but should I pitch at the temp it is now at 68 or take it back down to say 60?

 

[Upthewazzu]

Once again, 154° is perfectly acceptable for a bo pils. Lowering the mash temp by 2°-5° isn't going to make all that much difference.

There is definitely something else causing the low attenuation in this case.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Claiming that a 154f mash may have caused your beer to stop at 1.028 isn't even in the ballpark of a possible explanation. No.

 

[YeastHerder]

154F should have been fine, I'll repeat what an earlier poster said though -- maybe your temp gauge is off. I know mine reads -2F from correct, so I factor that in as I do things. A simple calibration step for any thermometer (assuming the range on it goes high enough) is bring some water to a boil and dip it in -- should read 100C or 212F if it is bang on (and assuming you're near sea-level). If it reads less than 212F in boiling water, you were probably mashing hotter than you thought.

 

[eryk4381]

Temp gauges are electronic and calibrated so that is not it. UPDATE: After pitching 6 days ago the numbers haven't moved. Doesn't taste super sugary or anything so im guessing there just may not be anymore sugers left? What do you guys think? Call it and start lagering?