NYShooterGuy
Well-Known Member
My friend (I swear it's my friend I'm referring to and not me) has been extract brewing for almost 2 years now. He has brewed approx 15 five gallon batches. He started wih IPA'S and Stouts. They tasted fantastic. No off flavors that stood out, or even could be remembered at this point.
He had been using a 5 gallon Stainless Steel pot on the kitchen electric stove had been used for making tomato sauce over the course of 15 years prior to beer making. He had also upgraded to using an aluminum 10 gallon pot over a propane burner outside and a several batches were made with no off flavors.
He is now frustrated and reluctant to brew and dump yet another 5 gallons down the drain from his recent problem with strong metallic flavors and painful acidic bite in the last 6 batches.
I suggested re-oxidizing and passivating the SS pot with Oxalic acid from Barkeeper's Friend. He didn't allow the 1-2 weeks for the layer to return, instead went to brewing in it the day after he applied the oxalic acid.
He has used a SS spoon in both kettles, noting that the SS kettle has many deep scratches in the bottom presumably from the years of scraping (and I would assume cleaning burnt acidic tomato sauce) over the years.
Could the aluminum pot and SS spoon Galvanized each other to degraded the metal in each and allow the metal flavor leach into the wort during boil in the aluminum?
Could the oxidized layer not have had enough time to form in the SS pot because he used so quickly after using oxalic acid?
2 days prior to this post, he had finished racking off the yeast in his primary (6.5 gallon plastic bucket) an Irish Red ale kit. As an experiment, I had brewed the EXACT same kit using my equipment that has not had lent off flavors that he has been experiencing.
He saved a sample from a thief pull for me to try, and I had brough over a carbonated and cooled 12 oz bottle as a side by side comparison. (Obviously my finished product would have the advantage of being carbonated, cooled, and cleared by way of a secondary container.)
His 7 day old beer was very green, but the acid bite on the front of the tongue, and the finish on the back of metallic flavor was overpowering. Again, we didn't have the luxury of having a finished product, but I KNOW my beer from the same stage did not have this problem.
We then poured 6oz. each of my beer. The Malt smell was the first note that I smelled. It had a slight metallic taste on thw back of the tongue, but I feel like this was residual from the overpowering flavoring of his beer.
I don't want to toot my own horn, but I never tasted metal in my beers until I sampled 3 more of his finished beers. Beers that had been conditioning in keegs for up to 5 months. ALL had an overpowering acid bite on the front of the tongue a d the metal aftertaste on the back.
After drinking these beers, any beer afterwards left a metal taste on the back of my tongue, even after a few hours.
48 hours had passed and I tried another of my Irish Red that I previously tasted the metal, but was met with a Malty, smooth Irish Red with no metal taste.
What is going here?
We agreed to try an experiment of a "cheap" kit ($24.99) using my kettle and his spoon. I washed my kettle 2 weeks ago with Bar Keeper's Friend and it should have an oxidized layer. His spoon will be used as it is without any extra attention or "seasoning". We are hoping to find that the kettle is the problem, but if this kit has the same acid and metal taste, we'll be at a loss.
Other then using oxalic acid on all the SS equipment that comes in contact wih the hot wort, and allowing the 1-2 week seasoning time, but else could be giving these off flavors.
He assured me the fementation temps were steady and that the yeast had a nice happy environment with the correct number of cells. The water was bottled spring water from the supermarket, and the wort was not Infected.
For the sake of keeping one more home brewer interested in this hobby, please help us understand what might be the malfunction.
He had been using a 5 gallon Stainless Steel pot on the kitchen electric stove had been used for making tomato sauce over the course of 15 years prior to beer making. He had also upgraded to using an aluminum 10 gallon pot over a propane burner outside and a several batches were made with no off flavors.
He is now frustrated and reluctant to brew and dump yet another 5 gallons down the drain from his recent problem with strong metallic flavors and painful acidic bite in the last 6 batches.
I suggested re-oxidizing and passivating the SS pot with Oxalic acid from Barkeeper's Friend. He didn't allow the 1-2 weeks for the layer to return, instead went to brewing in it the day after he applied the oxalic acid.
He has used a SS spoon in both kettles, noting that the SS kettle has many deep scratches in the bottom presumably from the years of scraping (and I would assume cleaning burnt acidic tomato sauce) over the years.
Could the aluminum pot and SS spoon Galvanized each other to degraded the metal in each and allow the metal flavor leach into the wort during boil in the aluminum?
Could the oxidized layer not have had enough time to form in the SS pot because he used so quickly after using oxalic acid?
2 days prior to this post, he had finished racking off the yeast in his primary (6.5 gallon plastic bucket) an Irish Red ale kit. As an experiment, I had brewed the EXACT same kit using my equipment that has not had lent off flavors that he has been experiencing.
He saved a sample from a thief pull for me to try, and I had brough over a carbonated and cooled 12 oz bottle as a side by side comparison. (Obviously my finished product would have the advantage of being carbonated, cooled, and cleared by way of a secondary container.)
His 7 day old beer was very green, but the acid bite on the front of the tongue, and the finish on the back of metallic flavor was overpowering. Again, we didn't have the luxury of having a finished product, but I KNOW my beer from the same stage did not have this problem.
We then poured 6oz. each of my beer. The Malt smell was the first note that I smelled. It had a slight metallic taste on thw back of the tongue, but I feel like this was residual from the overpowering flavoring of his beer.
I don't want to toot my own horn, but I never tasted metal in my beers until I sampled 3 more of his finished beers. Beers that had been conditioning in keegs for up to 5 months. ALL had an overpowering acid bite on the front of the tongue a d the metal aftertaste on the back.
After drinking these beers, any beer afterwards left a metal taste on the back of my tongue, even after a few hours.
48 hours had passed and I tried another of my Irish Red that I previously tasted the metal, but was met with a Malty, smooth Irish Red with no metal taste.
What is going here?
We agreed to try an experiment of a "cheap" kit ($24.99) using my kettle and his spoon. I washed my kettle 2 weeks ago with Bar Keeper's Friend and it should have an oxidized layer. His spoon will be used as it is without any extra attention or "seasoning". We are hoping to find that the kettle is the problem, but if this kit has the same acid and metal taste, we'll be at a loss.
Other then using oxalic acid on all the SS equipment that comes in contact wih the hot wort, and allowing the 1-2 week seasoning time, but else could be giving these off flavors.
He assured me the fementation temps were steady and that the yeast had a nice happy environment with the correct number of cells. The water was bottled spring water from the supermarket, and the wort was not Infected.
For the sake of keeping one more home brewer interested in this hobby, please help us understand what might be the malfunction.
