Strong flavor from overcarbonation?

[aggiejay06]

Hey folks, I'm trying to pinpoint a flavor I'm having in my last 3 batches. I brewed for three straight weeks, and each brew stayed in fermentation for 3 weeks before bottling (Belgian Tripel: 2 weeks primary, 1 week racked over bourbon-soaked oak chips; Weizenbier 3 weeks primary; Amber ale 3 weeks primary).

After each was bottled, I'd wait a few days and try some, then wait another few days and try some. For all of them, I absolutely loved the flavor all the way up to about 2 weeks post bottling. Now there's a strong flavor developing for them all that seems to be masking the great flavors I tasted before. It's not foul or anything like that...just kinda gives you a kick in the mouth. Unfortunately I don't really know how to describe it better than this. I'm wondering if they are perhaps overcarbonated? I'm not really sure how to identify an overcarbonated beer...aside from gushing, but they are not gushing. There is a fair amount of head when I pour sometimes (up to a few inches)...so maybe they are just slightly overcarbonated. They are all 5 gallon batches, and I used 5 oz corn sugar for priming with the BT and Weizen, and 8 oz honey for the amber.

I did not take gravity readings for three straight days before bottling...but I figured 3 weeks was enough to ensure complete fermentation. I don't like to mess with the beer during fermentation for fear of introducing contamination or oxygen.

Think this could be an overcarbonation problem? And if so, I guess there's nothing really I could do, right? I've thought about maybe opening a bottle, letting the gas in the neck escape, and then recapping it. I figure then some of the dissolved CO2 would have to re-equilibrate and fill the neck of the bottle, thereby reducing some of the carbonation in the beer. Anyone ever done this and had success?

Sidenote: I'm ridiculously anal about sanitation (comes with the territory of being a microbiology grad student I guess), so I really don't suspect contamination (especially considering it's 3 different batches). Maybe 5 oz of corn sugar would be perfect if when I racked into bottling bucket I had a full 5 gallons of beer, but I had 4 gallons about for the BT, and about 4.5 for the other two. Thoughts?

 

[steakandale]

Why do you suspect over-cabonation? and what do you suspect that would taste like? The only over-carb I've heard of is a bottle bomb. Gushing is a temperature-dependant thing. It won't gush if its been in the fridge long enough.
Priming sugar of 5ozs across 5 gals or 4.5g is slightly noticeable, some people alter the amount to a certain style by that much. A healthy amount of head is a sign of good carbonation.
Where are you storing the bottles immediately after bottling? Are they getting skunked? I don't get how its worse after 2 weeks post bottling - unless your tossing them into a hot shed.
I can't determine what would make it worse from what you have said so far. If the beer is green, it should only taste better with further conditioning.
If its a hot alcohol taste that won't go away.

 

[aggiejay06]

I'm not sure it's overcarbonation...the 2-week thing confuses me too! It's just developing a strong bite. The bottles are being stored at about 65 degrees F. They kept in the dark too...definitely not skunked.

 

[jwatkins56550]

What do you sanitize with? Also, try pouring the beer out back and forth between two glasses to knock out a lot
of the c02 an see if it tastes better

 

[aggiejay06]

I clean everything with Beerbrite, rinse that off with warm, then cold, water, and then I sanitize everything with StarSan for 30 seconds.

Interesting thought on the pouring from glass to glass...might give that a shot tonight.

 

[JRems]

I have overcarbed and it does develop a "bite". If you purge it will go away. I think it's the carbonic acid

 

[aggiejay06]

So you uncap and recap and let a new equilibrium develop?

 

[JRems]

It was kegged so I just had to purge the pressure release then drop the pressure. If it's bottled I don't know how to fix. Try letting a beer go flat and see if it has the same flavor. This way you can rule out carbonation as the off flavor.

 

[RM-MN]

What does it taste like in 3 months when it has had a chance to mature? I think you are getting a "green beer" flavor that will disappear as time goes on.

The other factor may be the temperature that you ferment at. My beer tastes better now that I have begun fermenting near the low end of the preferred range.

 

[aggiejay06]

Yeah...I've gotten rid of a certain, unfavorable "house flavor" by controlling fermentation temp (about 63-65 degrees for fermentation). I figure if it were a "green" flavor, I would have tasted it from the start...as all three brews tasted great up until about 2 weeks. Again, they still don't taste bad...just got the bite to them. But, I've only brewed 6 times, so I certainly don't know all there is to know.

 

[aggiejay06]

Ok...so the plot thickens. I was going to test my theory out by putting one of my amber ales straight into the fridge, uncapping and recapping a second one and then putting it in the fridge as well. Then I'd taste them both tomorrow night and compare. So as soon as I uncap it...bring on the gush. Any thing to do to salvage beers in this state? I know if I chill them, they won't gush, but the strong bite is still there. I'm quite disappointed as this is 3 different batches of beer, all of which tasted amazing before the carbonation came on so strong. My only plan of action now is to chill them bit by bit in my fridge, and recap them while they are already chilled...this should be fun as I have probably 120 bottles to do this with.

 

[dogbar]

Steadily increasing carbonation along with decreasing flavor is a pretty classic sign of infection. I know you're ruling that out, and it is weird to have it in three straight batches, but it might be time to look very closely at your hoses, bottling bucket, etc.

 

[aggiejay06]

Yeah...I think I must come to terms with the fact that maybe I'm not cleaning my bottling bucket well enough. I haven't taken the spigot apart to clean that actually...was hoping that soaking the hole bucket in Star San and then running Star San through the spigot for like 30 seconds was enough, but apparently not . I may buy new hoses as well...they definitely don't look like new anymore.

This is a major bummer...it doesn't taste foul (unless I can expect that it might taste foul soon), so maybe I'll still drink it, but dadgum, did those beers taste good. What a shame ...

Do I need to worry about infection carbonation increasing to the point that these will slowly turn into bottle bombs? Like I said before, I may still drink on them, unless they're just going to get worse and worse...

 

[dogbar]

If they're infected, they're going to get worse and worse. You can slow the process down by throwing them all in the fridge, but that only helps a little and I've found it tough to overcome the extreme bitterness of losing a batch I thought would be good.

Try an oxyclean soak, rather than star san. Really check your tubing.

Sorry man, sucks if that's what it is.

 

[BKmyWAY]

Sorry for not reading through everyone's comments, because they seem to be related to infection. There is a chance that this carbonation caused carbonic acid which can really cut through the flavor of a beer. Listen to the most recent Sunday session on the brewing network for more info...

 

[steakandale]

Do I need to worry about infection carbonation increasing to the point that these will slowly turn into bottle bombs? Like I said before, I may still drink on them, unless they're just going to get worse and worse...

No. they won't slowly turn into bottle bombs. unless you provided too much sugar to keep the process active. The recommended priming sugar by weight is just the right amount of food for the remaining yeasties to feast on.

If you identify the culprit - please report back what you found out.

 

[aggiejay06]

Thanks, folks. I'm going to taste my uncap/recap experiment tonight and see what happens. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a microbiology grad student, so I'm thinking about bringing in some beer samples and seeing if I can grow anything up on an agar plate. I should get at least my original yeast growing up, but if I see any other non-identical organisms growing up, I'm going to chalk it up to contamination. Might as well make use of my resources!

At the moment, I plan to drink them at an accelerated pace as long as they are tolerable, but I'm too ashamed to share them...and sharing is the best part of homebrewing.

 

[aggiejay06]

Funny story...so I was planning to recap two this morning that had been in the fridge all night. I tried to recap a room temp one last night and that's when I discovered the gushing. So, I figured this morning the cold ones would be fine to recap. Well, one still gushed, albeit much slower. I had a pint glass sitting nearby from last night and poured it in there. Then I had the conundrum of pouring the beer down the sink or drink it (you know, for "research purposes") for breakfast. So, I did what any self-respecting homebrewer would do and drank the beer with breakfast. I figured, what the heck, in the old days they used to have beer at every meal anyway!

 

[aggiejay06]

So I taste-tested last night, and just walked away more confused, and a little hopeful that it may be too much priming sugar and not contamination.

So here's the deal, turns out my Weizenbier on closer inspection tastes fine...it was brewed in the middle of the two batches that have the sharp taste and overcarbonation...

I'm actually going to calculate how much priming sugar I should use for the first time on the batch I'm going to brew this weekend. Otherwise, I've been using the "standard amounts" to this point, based off of the Complete Joy of Homebrewing. I also didn't adjust the amounts downward after losing beer to siphoning. Here are my final volume yields after siphoning and the type/amount of sugar I used for priming. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me whether or not it looks like I used wayyyy too much sugar.

1. Belgian Tripel - This was racked onto bourbon-soaked oak chips, so with siphoning twice, I lost a fair amount. Final volume: slightly over 4 gallons. Primed with 5 oz. corn sugar.

2. Weizenbier - Yielded about 4.7 gallons or so. Primed with 5 oz. corn sugar (this is the bottled batch that is fine).

3. Amber ale - Yielded a little over 4.5 gallons. Primed with 8 oz. of honey (about 6.5 oz. pure clover honey and about 1.5 oz raw wildflower honey).

Batches 1 and 3 have the issues...3 definitely gushes, haven't checked 1 at room temp yet. Both sharp tasting and highly carbonated. Any shot it was just too much sugar? Thanks again folks.

 

[dogbar]

Good news / bad news -- that's a LOT of honey. I've never primed with it, but if honey is like 75-80% sugar, your 8 oz is going to be way more than enough.

So that's a pretty good indication against infection. On the other hand, now you just have a lot of way overcarbonated beer

 

[aggiejay06]

The prospect of it just being way overcarbonated totally excites me, hah! I'm trying to slowly recap them all...the one I tested it helped a little. I would have liked to let the one I recapped gas off some more before I recapped it, but it was starting to ever so slowly gush, even at about 39 degrees F. I put 30 bottles in the fridge last night...and of course got the "there is WAY too much beer in the fridge" comment from my wife, hahah . I should have told her to take her 3 Miller Lites out then .

Dang you Charlie P! I should have consulted the forum, not his book!