Strange plastic taste that creeps into my beer

[geckholm]

How do you transfer your liquids between phases when you brew?

 

[OswaldvW]

How do you transfer your liquids between phases when you brew?

My brew pot a has a ball valve so I transfer from cooling into carboy using a sanitised vinyl or silicone tubing. I generally don't secondary. When it's time to bottle, I use a (sanitised) racking cane to move the beer to a (sanitised) bottling bucket that already has priming sugar (boiled and cooled) added.

 

[geckholm]

My brew pot a has a ball valve so I transfer from cooling into carboy using a sanitised vinyl or silicone tubing. I generally don't secondary. When it's time to bottle, I use a (sanitised) racking cane to move the beer to a (sanitised) bottling bucket that already has priming sugar (boiled and cooled) added.

quite a while back, I was transferring from mash tun to boil kettle with a plastic bucket and noted a type of plastic flavor to my beers. Prior to moving to pumps, I changed to some stainless steel pots and that actually seemed to help.

 

[OswaldvW]

It is now July 2015 and I seem to have solved the problem. The only new problem is I don't know which of the factors I changed led to the solution. I just now have a very regimental method of bottling.

 

[OswaldvW]

It is now July 2015 and I seem to have solved the problem. The only new problem is I don't know which of the factors I changed led to the solution. I just now have a very regimental method of bottling.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

I see that last post in this thread is from 2015... but it's not locked... so I am going to post anyway.

So I have been brewing (seriously and continuously) for just over a year. I have made beer/wine plenty in the past as well. I now keg my beer so it's no choir to keep brewing.

Having said that, I just transferred an all grain to my secondary and immediately smelled Plastic or Vinyl. I really don't think it's an infection. I use PBW then Star San and I am OVERLY concerned with sanitation/sterilization. I also usually put on two batches each time. One all grain and one extract. (I typically put on a Coopers Cerveza extract kit each brew cycle as it is super fast from primary to keg while I wait for the All Grain to finish and age) This is what I did this time as well. The all grain smells (and tastes) like nasty vinyl. The extract beer is fine. In about a year, this is the fourth batch that I will be dumping down the drain. It's starting to get old now.

When I tasted the wort from the hydrometer flask after crash cooling and before I pitched, it was beautiful!! I was so excited to get this new recipe fermented/aged/kegged. Now it's going down the drain.

BTW. I pretty much only use US-05 ale yeast and my basement is typically 18 to 20 Celsius (64F to 68F)

I should mention that I also use US-05 yeast for my extract kits as the Cooper's yeast is, well... not so good.

I have read that bad yeast can cause this? Should I be looking at changing where I buy my supplies?

I could seriously use some advice.

Thx in advance!

Michael

 

[tgolanos]

I see that last post in this thread is from 2015... but it's not locked... so I am going to post anyway.

So I have been brewing (seriously and continuously) for just over a year. I have made beer/wine plenty in the past as well. I now keg my beer so it's no choir to keep brewing.

Having said that, I just transferred an all grain to my secondary and immediately smelled Plastic or Vinyl. I really don't think it's an infection. I use PBW then Star San and I am OVERLY concerned with sanitation/sterilization. I also usually put on two batches each time. One all grain and one extract. (I typically put on a Coopers Cerveza extract kit each brew cycle as it is super fast from primary to keg while I wait for the All Grain to finish and age) This is what I did this time as well. The all grain smells (and tastes) like nasty vinyl. The extract beer is fine. In about a year, this is the fourth batch that I will be dumping down the drain. It's starting to get old now.

When I tasted the wort from the hydrometer flask after crash cooling and before I pitched, it was beautiful!! I was so excited to get this new recipe fermented/aged/kegged. Now it's going down the drain.

BTW. I pretty much only use US-05 ale yeast and my basement is typically 18 to 20 Celsius (64F to 68F)

I should mention that I also use US-05 yeast for my extract kits as the Cooper's yeast is, well... not so good.

I have read that bad yeast can cause this? Should I be looking at changing where I buy my supplies?

I could seriously use some advice.

Thx in advance!

Michael

Stupid question, but is all your tubing food-grade? If not, that may account for the plastic taste. If it's not the tubing, it could be stressed yeast or infection. Check all valves, spigots, small crevices for gunk and clean thoroughly.

Read all of the above, as well. It seems the OP solved his issue through changing his cleaning regimine. Maybe you'll find a solution in what's already been posted.

Good luck.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Stupid question, but is all your tubing food-grade? If not, that may account for the plastic taste. If it's not the tubing, it could be stressed yeast or infection. Check all valves, spigots, small crevices for gunk and clean thoroughly.

Read all of the above, as well. It seems the OP solved his issue through changing his cleaning regimine. Maybe you'll find a solution in what's already been posted.

Good luck.

Hi tgolanos. Thx for the response.

Yes all my tubing is food grade. I certainly wouldn't rule out infection. but... I am OCD when it comes to my cleaning/sterilization routine. I did have a couple batches get infected when I stared out, and I know that taste...

but THIS taste is so different and off putting that I'm not sure what is going on. It does in fact smell a bit like a band-aid (like the band-aids from my youth) but I would say more like hot vinyl or even burnt electronics would be more accurate. I have been buying my ingredients from the same store. This bad smell/taste has happened 4 times in one year and months apart. That is why I am wondering if perhaps the yeast was bad? Also, at least in my mind, if I had a bad cleaning routine, I would think that BOTH my batches would be infected. (this is my rational anyway)

I guess I am looking to see if by just "luck of the draw", of the two yeast packs I bought on the same day, one of them happened to be bad.

I guess I am just trying to assign the blame elsewhere rather than on me. lol

 

[seatazzz]

Haven't seen this particular response yet, so here's my two cents to a 2 year old thread....what temp is your wort at when you pitch your yeast? Stressed yeast can definitely throw off those bandaid smells/flavors (ask me how I know!). This can be due to 1) too high wort temperature at pitching; 2) underpitching; 3) fermentation temperature. It can also be caused by using the "wrong" yeast for the style of beer you are brewing.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Hi Seatazzz,

I crash cooled to about 75F. Then I pitched US-05 dry. (the all grain was supposed to be a lager) I believe that the fermentation temp was about 66F (19c - I'm Canadian!) for the rest of the fermentation. I had a batch of extract beer going on the same day, with the same yeast. (and it turned out fine)

I am thinking that I just got infected. My all grain was in a FastFermenter and my extract was in a pail. The FastFermenter can be a bitch sanitize from all the threads that it has. Even though I am diligent with cleaning/sterilization, all it takes is a little bad stuff to ruin your beer right?

 

[seatazzz]

That is true. However, the plasticy bandaid flavor is almost always your water quality, stressed yeast, or can also be just something plastic that got into your wort.

Another question, did you rehydrate the yeast before pitching? Rehydration isn't completely necessary, but it CAN give you a good indication if the yeast is healthy. I always rehydrate for this very reason. Even if you do it 15 minutes before pitching (being careful with the water temperature, don't go over 85 degrees) it should start working. If you've got little or no action 15 minutes after rehydrating, you're gonna have a bad time if you pitch it in your wort.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I’m living this same nightmare as well. I have now had a helles, oktoberfest, roggenbier, rye pale ale, and now a new rye pale ale(made with RO water) (over the last 10 months) all ruined due to this same plastic flavor in my beer. Both bottled and kegged beers. My previous 60 batches did not have this problem.. In this time period I have had success with a hefeweizen and a hard cider. I am at a loss to find the problem.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

I’m living this same nightmare as well. I have now had a helles, oktoberfest, roggenbier, rye pale ale, and now a new rye pale ale(made with RO water) (over the last 10 months) all ruined due to this same plastic flavor in my beer. Both bottled and kegged beers. My previous 60 batches did not have this problem.. In this time period I have had success with a hefeweizen and a hard cider. I am at a loss to find the problem.

To tell you the truth, I feel that my issue was infection. After thinking about it, the few times that I had a batch of beer with off/bad flavors, it was fermented in my Fastferment Conical. I have since moved back to just a regular old pail for my primary and have had MANY batches brewed with no off flavors or infections yet.

Also, I am paying very close attention to my fermentation temps now. I brew in a basement and I have found that if I move my primary from the counter down to the cement floor, the temps drop significantly. I now hold at about 62 to 64 f while fermenting. (I always use US-05 yeast). On the counter, I was getting up into the 70's for temp.

I no longer use my conical FastFerment. But actually, since moving to all grain, the FastFerment is useless anyway.

Hopefully this helps you!

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Im wondering if infection is my problem, but where it is, I have no idea. Prior to this problem, I hadnt brewed for about 8 months, and this had never occurred. Then it began, and for some reason, my hard cider (kegged) and my hefeweizen (bottled) didn’t have the issue.. my homebrew club sampled my beers and the assessment was universal, chlorophenols.. I was using a charcoal filter but we suspected chloramine was being added in the hotter months of the year and that is where it came from.. so I dug in and learned water chemistry and started with RO water.. I have had my water tested so I have a profile to build from.. I am death on cleaning and have no idea where an infection would be hiding.
My most recent beer, an RO rye pale ale, was split 50/50 Nottingham and US05.. after 1 week bottle conditioning, I noticed it in the US05. This weekend I will try both.. I ferment low and controlled. Notty started at 62, US05 started at 62, but I had to bring it to 65 to get it going.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Im wondering if infection is my problem, but where it is, I have no idea. Prior to this problem, I hadnt brewed for about 8 months, and this had never occurred. Then it began, and for some reason, my hard cider (kegged) and my hefeweizen (bottled) didn’t have the issue.. my homebrew club sampled my beers and the assessment was universal, chlorophenols.. I was using a charcoal filter but we suspected chloramine was being added in the hotter months of the year and that is where it came from.. so I dug in and learned water chemistry and started with RO water.. I have had my water tested so I have a profile to build from.. I am death on cleaning and have no idea where an infection would be hiding.
My most recent beer, an RO rye pale ale, was split 50/50 Nottingham and US05.. after 1 week bottle conditioning, I noticed it in the US05. This weekend I will try both.. I ferment low and controlled. Notty started at 62, US05 started at 62, but I had to bring it to 65 to get it going.

Ya, I usually pitch at around 70 and it takes a day or so for that temp to drop and normalize after I move the primary to the floor. So during that time, my temps are ideal for the yeast to wake up and get going. I live in Calgary Alberta and we have extremely hard water and a tremendous amount of chlorine/chloramine (I'm not sure which is used here) so I charcoal filter my water as well.

BTW, I flow about 1 gallon per minute though my filter so it has time to work. I found if I had it cranked up, I could still sense a faint smell of chlorine. Once I backed down the flow rate through the filter, it was perfect.

That being said,

**** and I think this was key to overcoming my issue **** ,

I re-examined my cleaning/sterilization routine and went back to a Bucket primary. (as they are very easy to clean and sanitize) I have not had any issues since. Are you using PBW for cleaning and Starsan for sterilization? I always use both on everything I use. Buckets, Secondary's, Kegs, Tubing etc... (I use a pump to move PBW through all my hoses for a few mins)

Good Luck!! (and do a follow up post with your results)

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Ya, I usually pitch at around 70 and it takes a day or so for that temp to drop and normalize after I move the primary to the floor. So during that time, my temps are ideal for the yeast to wake up and get going. I live in Calgary Alberta and we have extremely hard water and a tremendous amount of chlorine/chloramine (I'm not sure which is used here) so I charcoal filter my water as well.

BTW, I flow about 1 gallon per minute though my filter so it has time to work. I found if I had it cranked up, I could still sense a faint smell of chlorine. Once I backed down the flow rate through the filter, it was perfect.

That being said,

**** and I think this was key to overcoming my issue **** ,

I re-examined my cleaning/sterilization routine and went back to a Bucket primary. (as they are very easy to clean and sanitize) I have not had any issues since. Are you using PBW for cleaning and Starsan for sterilization? I always use both on everything I use. Buckets, Secondary's, Kegs, Tubing etc... (I use a pump to move PBW through all my hoses for a few mins)

Good Luck!! (and do a follow up post with your results)

As to the existence of chlorine/chloromine; activated charcoal filtration (at a proper flow rate as you discovered) will typically remove chlorine. Chloromine, however, it will not. A common practice is to collect and treat all filtered water with a Campden tablet (1 tablet crushed per 20 gallons of water, let sit 1 hour prior to brewing). This is a good insurance policy if you are not using RO water.
I never notice this flavor post fermentation. Its always after bottling/kegging. After a brew day, I clean anything with brewing sediment, i.e. boil kettles, carboys, and also bottles, with PBW and rinse heavily.. all hot side equipment then gets cleaned with Dawn and heavily rinsed, and all cold-side equipment followed by Starsan and dried. Prior to use on brew day, the hot side gets washed with Dawn and rinsed and the cold side gets washed with Dawn and rinsed and StarSan. Bottles are PBW and rinsed and Dawn and rinsed and stored. Once removed from storage for use, they are rinsed and baked in the oven at 250 for 30 minutes.

I have a RO water based cream ale completing fermentation and will be kegged this weekend. I am going to replace all cold side equipment (tubes, auto-siphon and racking canes) prior to racking it to a cleaned keg (that gets the PBW/rinse/Dawn/rinse/ StarSan routine). If this happens again, all that remains is my tube that goes from my mash tun to my boil kettle (which is getting replaced as well) and my plastic mash tun.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

As a side note, I use a large Rubbermaid cooler as a mash tun, 8 gallon SS pot or keggle to boil and 6 gallon glass carboys with S-type Star San filled airlocks for fermentation.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Wow, So you're cleaning routine seems perfectly legit. It is very strange indeed that your issue crops up after kegging/bottling. The times where I had infection issues was noticed right after primary fermentation. Typically, I taste the sample I pull off to measure final gravity. If it tastes good, I keep going. When I did have problems, it was noticeable right away. (and it sucks to boot!!)

Maybe it is your tubing, auto-siphon or racking cane? I've been brewing constantly for about a year now (brewed on and off in the past) and I am at the point now where my tubes look like it's time to replace them.

Speaking of auto-siphon, I HATE that darn thing. What a pain in the butt. All I do now, it use my racking cane. I put about 2 liters of Starsan in a bucket, pull it through the hose by mouth till it is almost at the end of the hose making sure there are no air gaps, then I put the loose end under the Starsan and leave it till I need it. So the entire hose is filled with Starsan. Then when it is time to rack, I kink the end of the hose, quickly put the cane into the vessel holding beer and then let the Starsan flow out, which pulls beer behind it. Then I stick the loose end in whatever I am transferring to.

Also, I don't bottle anymore... So when I am ready to Keg, I take apart my kegs completely for cleaning/sterilization and then I put them back together. After that, I put in some Starsan, pressurize with compressed air and then force the Starsan out every orifice. (like beer out, gas in and relief valve until all the Starsan is all pushed out. After that I leave it as is and fill the keg.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Wow, So you're cleaning routine seems perfectly legit. It is very strange indeed that your issue crops up after kegging/bottling. The times where I had infection issues was noticed right after primary fermentation. Typically, I taste the sample I pull off to measure final gravity. If it tastes good, I keep going. When I did have problems, it was noticeable right away. (and it sucks to boot!!)

Maybe it is your tubing, auto-siphon or racking cane? I've been brewing constantly for about a year now (brewed on and off in the past) and I am at the point now where my tubes look like it's time to replace them.

Speaking of auto-siphon, I HATE that darn thing. What a pain in the butt. All I do now, it use my racking cane. I put about 2 liters of Starsan in a bucket, pull it through the hose by mouth till it is almost at the end of the hose making sure there are no air gaps, then I put the loose end under the Starsan and leave it till I need it. So the entire hose is filled with Starsan. Then when it is time to rack, I kink the end of the hose, quickly put the cane into the vessel holding beer and then let the Starsan flow out, which pulls beer behind it. Then I stick the loose end in whatever I am transferring to.

Also, I don't bottle anymore... So when I am ready to Keg, I take apart my kegs completely for cleaning/sterilization and then I put them back together. After that, I put in some Starsan, pressurize with compressed air and then force the Starsan out every orifice. (like beer out, gas in and relief valve until all the Starsan is all pushed out. After that I leave it as is and fill the keg.

Yeah, always after bottling/kegging.. so I’m gonna replace that equipment first.

After I went to the Auto-siphon, no going back for me.

+1 on your keg cleaning routine.. I mostly keg, but bottle some.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

You like your auto-siphon? Maybe mine is just cheap garbage, but half the time it won't pull any beer on the up stroke and beer gets between the inner and outer tube. Not only that, when I am trying to concentrate on priming the thing, the other end of the hose usually falls out of the thing I am racking to and I end up pouring beer on my leg/foot... it's now on the shelf collecting dust! hahaha.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

You like your auto-siphon? Maybe mine is just cheap garbage, but half the time it won't pull any beer on the up stroke and beer gets between the inner and outer tube. Not only that, when I am trying to concentrate on priming the thing, the other end of the hose usually falls out of the thing I am racking to and I end up pouring beer on my leg/foot... it's now on the shelf collecting dust! hahaha.

The rubber seal between the racking cane and the tube is likely not sealing.. it could be damaged OR when stored it may be pressing against something causing it to be oddly shaped.. dip it in hot water for 15 seconds and it may return to its original form..
Also, I usually clip the hose to the top edge of a bucket when racking. You can use a sanitized chip clip.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

The rubber seal between the racking can and the tube is likely not sealing.. it could be damaged OR when stored it may be pressing against something causing it to be oddly shaped.. dip it in hot water for 15 seconds and it may return to its original form..
Also, I usually clip the hose to the top edge of a bucket when racking. You can use a sanitized chip clip.

Hmmm.. I didn't think of looking at the o-ring. I'll check it out. +1 on clipping the end to the vessel. I don't know why I did think of that! In hind sight.. it seems so obvious! lol I may give it another shot. When it does work, the auto-siphon racks much faster than my racking cane due to larger inner diameter.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Having run out of options, I have sent samples to a lab for microbiological testing at a lab.. I will follow up with results.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Well.. I received the results back from the lab. They ran a full microbiological series of tests, and found I was infected with a wild “non-Saccharomyces cerevisiae” yeast. I have since replaced all the plastic “cold side” brewing equipment and am using a better O2 system than before. I have brewed a cream ale batch and the off flavor didn’t appear after 2 weeks in a keg. Fingers crossed.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Well.. I received the results back from the lab. They ran a full microbiological series of tests, and found I was infected with a wild “non-Saccharomyces cerevisiae” yeast. I have since replaced all the plastic “cold side” brewing equipment and am using a better O2 system than before. I have brewed a cream ale batch and the off flavor didn’t appear after 2 weeks in a keg. Fingers crossed.

Hmm interesting. So did the lab point towards your cold side equipment as the likely culprit of your infection or did you just replace as a possible cause - elimination step?

Thanks for posting your results BTW!

 

[Karlsfsn]

Soooooo...... I know this post is 7 years old and I'm sure by now you have figured out you problem/process. But since it is still open and we can all learn from each other experience, here is mine.


I have recently run into this taste/smell with certain brews. I brew all-grain and am pretty diligent when it comes to cleaning and sanitization. My most recent batch is a Mexican Lager, so a pretty light beer and easy to pick up off-flavors. When I set the beer to cold crash I completely forgot about the fact that the cooling process can draw liquid out of an airlock. I filled my airlock with sani-water from my spray bottlen which smells heavily of plastic, prior to setting the carboy in the fridge. The next morning I saw all the water had been drawn into the carboy. During kegging when I was tasting the beer it tasted like how my spray bottle smells. My guess is that that is my culprit and not an infection or poor sanitation practices. Hope that helps. Cheers.