Storm - Lambic Mead

[MarshmallowBlue]

I love this idea. So much so I started a gallon of my own lambic mead today.

Excellent, another convert. I've spent the last 2.5 years doing almost nothing but sour and funky meads (but also made beer). Learning a lot about what works and what doesn't.

 

[sweetcell]

Learning a lot about what works and what doesn't.

can you please share with us some of the highlights?

maybe what definitely doesn't work, so people don't waste time going down a dead end?

thanks!

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

can you please share with us some of the highlights?

maybe what definitely doesn't work, so people don't waste time going down a dead end?

thanks!

In Short, the biggest lesson so far is don't make an all Brett mead over 1.075 without a very healthy starter. (Haven't tested one with a healthy starter yet.)

I'll work on getting a bulk of information on lambic, sour, and alternatively fermented soon. But it's going to take some more time.

 

[TandemTails]

I'm really interested in trying one of these. I've already got the wyeast blend smack pack. Just waiting for the holiday travel to calm down so I can do my SNA properly

 

[NibblesMN]

I love this idea. So much so I started a gallon of my own lambic mead today.

A month in it's still bubbling away. I added dregs from a few great sours as I drank them. It smells amazing, I'm not sure how to describe it. I don't want to take any samples yet as I started with only one gallon. But all things point to awesome at this point.

Dregs:
Avery Raspberry Sour
Boom Island Oude Funk - If you live in the Twin Cities, BUY THIS BEER
Crooked Stave / Hawkshead Key Lime Tau (2&#960

 

[RPh_Guy]

@MarshmallowBlue
I just started a 1 gal batch of your recipe here.
O.G. 1.065.
I used 0.1oz of oak cubes instead of chips. Cheap, non-varietal honey.
Trying to hold it between 66/67°F for now.

Planning to follow TOSNA 2.0, assuming high N requirement.
Except I already added the first addition... Hope that's fine.

If there's a lag time, should I delay the subsequent additions?

Do you degas/aerate once daily, considering that Brett might produce acetic acid?

I'm fairly new to mead making. If anyone has thoughts, please chime in!

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

@MarshmallowBlue
I just started a 1 gal batch of your recipe here.
O.G. 1.065.
I used 0.1oz of oak cubes instead of chips. Cheap, non-varietal honey.
Trying to hold it between 66/67°F for now.

Planning to follow TOSNA 2.0, assuming high N requirement.
Except I already added the first addition... Hope that's fine.

If there's a lag time, should I delay the subsequent additions?

Do you degas/aerate once daily, considering that Brett might produce acetic acid?

I'm fairly new to mead making. If anyone has thoughts, please chime in!

Do not degas or aerate. For the precise reason you mentioned.


If you want to learn more about sour meadmaking, I have a lot of information available on my site (Hivemind Mead). I Also have a book available on Ebay + Amazon. You can learn more about that here: http://hivemindmead.com/wild-mead-sour-mead-making-book/

You're fine with cubes vs chips.
Yeah if you get any lag, I would wait a bit before adding more nutrient.
Feel free to shoot me any more wild / sour mead questions or troubleshooting needs you run into.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What's a good way to add nutrient without degassing?

Also, how would you describe the level of sour taste for your sour meads (without added fruit)?

Thanks!

 

[Maylar]

If you mix your nutrient in liquid you can avoid the mead explosion from adding powder to an active ferment. I usually save a cup of must in a glass jar and mix my nutrients in that, adding a measured amount for each required addition. A small amount of water will accomplish the same goal if you have no saved must.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

What Maylar said

 

[RPh_Guy]

Added my last TOSNA today (SG 1.039). Seems to be going well. There wan't much lag time so I didn't delay the nutrients.. I degassed it days 2,3,4,5 (today) without aerating.

Only a hint of yeast character in the aroma at this point. I've been increasing it slowly up to 72/73 trying to get more character. I'll probably push it to 74/75 til primary is over.
I'll age at 68-70F. Now the long wait.

Any comments on how sour I can expect this to be (without fruit)?

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Should be a sourness that's balanced with funk. If you want more sour, make another must and pitch some Omega lacto or similar and no brett. Then blend the two together when the time comes.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Here's what I was thinking:
1. Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB) stop producing lactic acid when the pH falls below a certain threshold depending on strain, usually around 3.0-3.4.
2. Mead has very poor buffering capacity, so the pH drops extremely rapidly once fermentation begins.
3. Acidic taste is mainly dependent on the amount of acid produced (TA), not on pH.

In mead the LAB become inhibited quickly and aren't able to produce much acid. Adding fruit is one way to add acid. I might consider using an acid blend or fruit I guess if it's not sour enough for me.

I've been thinking about ways to buffer it without creating off-flavors. Adding chemical buffers seems pointless when I could just add lactic acid if I wanted. I don't know, rice hulls?
If I can get my hands on a Lactic Acid Yeast that would be awesome, though I'm not sure if it has a bottom pH limit to produce lactic acid.

Starting to get some Brett aroma out of the airlock. I think it'll be good even if not really sour. I'm not worried about it

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Yeah let it ride! Adjust if needed.

 

[Metalchef1]

Have you tried just plain must with the omega blend? And if so, what have your results been?

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Have you tried just plain must with the omega blend? And if so, what have your results been?

That blend is only 2 lacto strains and has no yeast. So it's just for creating sourness, you'll need to add extra yeast. Alternatively, I've made a mead with just White Labs Berliner Blend, and that has yielded excellent results. Nice and sour.

 

[Metalchef1]

I was just curious if the omega will do its job souring as honey has antibacterial properties...

 

[RPh_Guy]

Osmotic pressure/lack of water, peroxide-producing enzymes, and the other natural antimicrobial substances sporadically found in honey all lose effectiveness once we dilute it. That's how we can ferment it.

I'd expect the level of acid from LAB to be fairly low even in pure diluted honey must for the reasons I described above.
I don't know why you'd only add bacteria except for the sake of experimentation (and you'd need to sterilize or pasteurize the honey first), and I'm sensing that hasn't been done by any of us here.

 

[Metalchef1]

I wish to do a "kettle sour" for a mead.... Which brought me to the question of using omega blend with must.
Souring needs to be done before the addition of hops as lacto can not tolerate hops.
So you would only add bacteria in order to sour, then add sacc in order to ferment the product.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Just pitch your LAB 24-48 hrs before the yeast with some Fermaid O for buffering, hold at a reasonable temperature, and hope for the best.
There's no reason to kill the Lacto.
Hops can be added later.

 

[Metalchef1]

I was not planning on adding hops to Mead. I was using the example a kettle souring a beer to inquire if using the method of pitching lacto into must would sour it like pitching lacto into a wort.
I asked this question because my research has led me to believe the lacto has difficulty surviving in Mead must because of the properties of the honey

 

[Metalchef1]

And the lacto blend from Omega yeast works at room temperature so there is no reason to worry about the temperature you hold it at. I have used Omega with beer multiple times and I'm very pleased with the results

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes, Lacto survives in mead. Raw honey contains LAB.

 

[Metalchef1]

Right on. Thank you very much

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I was not planning on adding hops to Mead. I was using the example a kettle souring a beer to inquire if using the method of pitching lacto into must would sour it like pitching lacto into a wort.
I asked this question because my research has led me to believe the lacto has difficulty surviving in Mead must because of the properties of the honey

So, basically, when the honey is un-altered on the shelf (like in a jar etc), it won't ferment until the water content gets higher. So honey only keeps those anti-microbial properties in its high gravity state. Once you add water, it's just as fermentable and easy to access for yeast / bacteria as any other sugary liquid.

 

[Metalchef1]

Excellent...