Storing beer in a cornie.

[CanadianQuaffer]

Hey everybody.

My pumpkin ale is ready to rack to a keg, but my kegerator isn't ready yet.
If I rack to the keg, hit it with about 5 psi while purging the oxygen a few times would the beer be ok to sit in the keg for a while until the kegerator is ready?

Nick

 

[Chad_C]

Sure can! I'd hit it with about 30psi a few times instead of 5psi though.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

Why's that? So the beer will absorb the co2 whilst sitting?

 

[Copperpots_Brewing]

Why's that? So the beer will absorb the co2 whilst sitting?

No, 30psi will ensure you get all of the oxygen out, due to a higher pressure.

 

[r8rphan]

I leave beer sitting in my corny's at room temp all the time while I wait for room to become available in the kegerator.. sometimes for a couple months or more...

Every couple days, I hook it back up to the gas for a minute, as the beer absorbs the CO2.. Plus it gives it a bit of a head start on carbonation...

When I first fill the keg, I hook it up to the gas, and then pull the pressure release ring ever so slightly to allow it to force regular air out.. I'll do that a few times, letting it sit for several hours inbetween...

That way, I end up with almost all CO2 in there...

 

[sonex]

No, 30psi will ensure you get all of the oxygen out, due to a higher pressure.

not to mention the higher pressure will seat the o-ring much better providing a better seal

 

[Chad_C]

not to mention the higher pressure will seat the o-ring much better providing a better seal

Bingo!

 

[r8rphan]

There's a chart around somewhere that gives pressure rates at room temp that convert to pressure rates at serving temp..

I plan to eventually get a second regulator and use it to pre carbonate beer at room temp.. I think that room temp the beer needs to be carbed at about 25-30 PSI, so that when it is stuck in the kegerator and chilled it is ready to go...

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

So if I just let it sit for a week or so at 25-30 PSI it should be good to go? No need to shake/roll the keg?

 

[scsnick]

If its going to sit for that long, why not purge the headspace, then add some priming sugar and let it naturally carb?

 

[Copperpots_Brewing]

So if I just let it sit for a week or so at 25-30 PSI it should be good to go? No need to shake/roll the keg?

Absolutely don't shake the keg! Don't ever shake the keg! I hate that people still use that method. It is incredibly inconsistent and will often result in over-carbonation, which will greatly frustrate you.
All through your brewing process, you need to have patience. Carbonating is no exception. If force carbing, use the set and forget method. Sure it may take a week or more, but plan accordingly!

 

[EarthBound]

Absolutely don't shake the keg! Don't ever shake the keg! I hate that people still use that method. It is incredibly inconsistent and will often result in over-carbonation, which will greatly frustrate you.
All through your brewing process, you need to have patience. Carbonating is no exception. If force carbing, use the set and forget method. Sure it may take a week or more, but plan accordingly!

I know plenty of pros who shake kegs. My local brewery uses a machine (basically a motor that's connected to a tray in such a way that it rocks back and forth, see-saw style) to carbonate their Sanke kegs. Because of this machine, they're able to have more than 10 different beers on tap at all times. Therefore, they are able to make much more money. They have created a table for different beers that illustrates the time it takes on the machine to get a certain amount of carbonation.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

OK, I won't shake the keg!!!

Sitting at 25 PSI will do it then? I always thought you'd want it to sit at about 10-12 PSI?

Oh, and the keg is sitting in the fridge that will serve as my kegerator as we speak. Which is running at about 5 deg C. (40 F?) if that makes any difference.

 

[Wrecked]

No, 30psi will ensure you get all of the oxygen out, due to a higher pressure.

30psi will also insure you get a proper seal on your keg.

 

[copyright1997]

Hey everybody.

My pumpkin ale is ready to rack to a keg, but my kegerator isn't ready yet.
If I rack to the keg, hit it with about 5 psi while purging the oxygen a few times would the beer be ok to sit in the keg for a while until the kegerator is ready?

Nick

I am doing this as I type with a corny full of mirror pond clone with no place to go because my kegerator is full. But, keep the pressure at what is required to properly carbonate, not 5 psi.

 

[stlbeer]

Absolutely don't shake the keg! Don't ever shake the keg! I hate that people still use that method. It is incredibly inconsistent and will often result in over-carbonation, which will greatly frustrate you.
All through your brewing process, you need to have patience. Carbonating is no exception. If force carbing, use the set and forget method. Sure it may take a week or more, but plan accordingly!

This sounds pretty drastic. I've only been brewing for 5 years and have done this on occasion. What's the problem? It seems to me if you do this to get the process started the the only you'll overcarbonate the beer is if you apply too much pressure at the wrong temperature.

 

[rcrabb22]

If its going to sit for that long, why not purge the headspace, then add some priming sugar and let it naturally carb?

+1 very good idea and I do that often with good results

 

[audger]

Because of this machine, they're able to have more than 10 different beers on tap at all times. Therefore, they are able to make much more money.

its not because of the machine. the machine simply replaces the planning ahead needed to do the same thing. its only a shortcut to doing it the normal way.

i agree that shaking is probably not the best idea. if you get the process down well enough, it could be adequate, but the results are always going to be completely dependant on the exact procedure you use. not to mention that carbonating that fast causes a temporary pH spike and a slightly harsher feel to the beer. this goes away after a week or two.

but if you are waiting a week or two for the beer to mellow after burst carbonating, or if you are aging the beer properly in the first place, why not just use the set and forget method.

its pretty hard to screw up the procedure of: set regulator at 12psi, connect keg, leave it alone.

If its going to sit for that long, why not purge the headspace, then add some priming sugar and let it naturally carb?

remember though, that requires yeast in the keg. when i put beer in a keg, almost all of the yeast is left in secondary.

 

[EarthBound]

Actually, it is because of the machine. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I've never even heard of someone proposing any evidence that shaking results with a "slightly harsher feel to the beer."

Unless you completely filter your beer, there's always plenty of yeast suspended in the beer (regardless of a secondary vessel) to continue fermentation. That's how we naturally carbonate.

 

[triangulum33]

How long has the beer been in the fermenter? Why not leave it there or rack to secondary to condition until your kegerator is available?

I have learned the hard way that the set and forget carbonation method is the easiest most reliable method. I find it takes a full 2 weeks to carb up to where I am happy, but like others have said, it needs to simply be part of the brewing process.

 

[copyright1997]

Actually, it is because of the machine. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I've never even heard of someone proposing any evidence that shaking results with a "slightly harsher feel to the beer."

Unless you completely filter your beer, there's always plenty of yeast suspended in the beer (regardless of a secondary vessel) to continue fermentation. That's how we naturally carbonate.

+1.
This is true even if you cold crash before carbonating (with sugar) in the keg.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I shake kegs from time to time in order to speed the time from kegging to dispensing. My technique is to chill the beer overnight at serving pressure. Once it's cold, I bump the pressure to 30 psi and shake for a few minutes. Reduce the pressure to serving pressure, let it settle for a few minutes, and taste test. If it's still flat, repeat the process.

I shoot for slightly undercarbonated beer, allowing time and normal serving pressure to take care of the rest. I can handle slightly undercarbonated beer for a day or two.

This technique works very well in a pinch!

 

[Lost]

I think shaking works very well but I would do it only at serving pressure. There is no chance of over carbing this way.

Edit: any method that uses elevated pressure is a recipe for over carbonation. That's been my experience anyhow.

 

[bastardbrew]

Ooops, mispost

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Edit: any method that uses elevated pressure is a recipe for over carbonation.

Hence, I recommend an air of caution when doing so. It doesn't take long to overshoot.

 

[CanadianQuaffer]

OK, so I had it at 25 psi in the fridge for about 18 hours (unconnected to the tank), then I bled it and reset at 12 psi (now connected to the tank) and I'm gonna leave it sit for a few more days or a week. Should that be good?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Lost]

Hence, I recommend an air of caution when doing so. It doesn't take long to overshoot.

If you're careful you can get away with it. You seem to be a well experienced and knowledgeable brewer and probably have it down to a science which is good. But my point is there's very little gained by putting it under higher-than-serving pressure so I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is just learning to keg and I don't do it myself.

Just set it at serving pressure and shake. The shaking increases the surface area in contact with the gas and accelerates absorption. The total volumes (i.e. carbonation level) is a function of liquid temp and gas pressure so the shaking will not overcarbonate your beer *IF* you have it set at serving pressure. The downside to shaking is that you must let it sit overnight for the resultant foam to settle.

OK, so I had it at 25 psi in the fridge for about 18 hours (unconnected to the tank), then I bled it and reset at 12 psi (now connected to the tank) and I'm gonna leave it sit for a few more days or a week. Should that be good?

Thanks,

Nick

The only sure way to tell is to pull a pint and see if it is to your liking

 

[cwi]

Actually, it is because of the machine. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I've never even heard of someone proposing any evidence that shaking results with a "slightly harsher feel to the beer."

Unless you completely filter your beer, there's always plenty of yeast suspended in the beer (regardless of a secondary vessel) to continue fermentation. That's how we naturally carbonate.

Wow. You contradicted other persons' viewpoints because of things you know to be factual, and no one told you to go self-procreate.

its not because of the machine. the machine simply replaces the planning ahead needed to do the same thing. its only a shortcut to doing it the normal way.

The shaker table allows the brewery to produce more finished beer with the same amount of serving kegs. Less time carb'ing means less volume required for the pipeline. No amount of planning can fix that, unless you mean financial planning for investment in more serving kegs.

 

[r8rphan]

OK, so I had it at 25 psi in the fridge for about 18 hours (unconnected to the tank), then I bled it and reset at 12 psi (now connected to the tank) and I'm gonna leave it sit for a few more days or a week. Should that be good?

Thanks,

Nick

You can quickly reduce it to the proper pressure by hooking the gas up to the gas input, setting it to the desired carb pressure, then hooking up a party tap to the output.. Turn the keg upside down, and open the party tap for a few seconds to release gas... hold it open until you hear gas bubbling up through the beer..

then release the party tap handle and wait for the bubbling to stop.... when it does, open the party tap again for 3-4 seconds, and then again wait for the bubbling to stop... do this several times (maybe half a dozen or a dozen)...

When you turn the keg back right side up, you'll find that it's properly pressurized to what you set your regulator to during the process.. If for some reason, it's still over carbed, turn it upside down and do it some more...

I imagine you could do this using your regular kegerator tap, but I find it easier with a party tap...

What is happening, is that as you allow the incoming gas to come up through the beer, you are 'agitating' the suspended CO2 in the beer, causing it to be released... much like 'shaking a can of soda before opening it.. but it can only be released to equal the pressure coming in..

I've seen a set up (on this site somewhere) where a guy got a regulator and hooked the primary side up to a gas barb and had the secondary side hooked up to nothing.. He then hooked up a gas out from his gas manifold to a beer out barb...

IOW, he hooked up his keg backwards... He set the outgoing regulator to the pressure he desired the beer to be carbed at, and then would send in blasts of CO2... basically doing the same thing I just said, only without turning the keg upside down... The principle is still the same, sending agitating gas up through the beer to release excess suspended carbonation..

I once quick carbed a keg of beer this way.. took it from zero carb to fully carbed in less than three hours...

I hooked up the gas to a chilled keg of beer, set the incoming pressure to I think something like 40 PSI, and shook the crap out of the keg (on it's side) every five minutes or so for a couple hours... Then I set the pressure to 14 PSI (what I run at here), and turned it upside down and used a party tap to release the excess carbonation... 10 minutes or so later, I had a fully carbed keg of beer...

Saved the day!

 

[cheezydemon3]

Wow. You contradicted other persons' viewpoints because of things you know to be factual, and no one told you to go self-procreate.

"Self Procreation" is impossible. So go self copulate you igorant freak!




Seriously though, carbing aside, too many brewers think "Into the keg, then into the cold"

I have 2 full kegs aging right now, even though there is room in the fridge.