Stone to layoff employees

[NoIguanaForZ]

That's your defense? Management sucks and every armchair manager and worker bee out there knows their company better than they do? You mean the same management that built that company from nothing to worldwide distribution? The same management that has kept thousands of people employed for years? The same management that knew what it was like to struggle before they became big? The same management that brought in an extremely intelligent individual with a track record of success that most people could only dream of to run the day to day operations exactly because they were smart enough to know when they had reached their knowledge and experience threshold??? Is that the management to which you refer?

...are you getting paid for writing this?

Then again don't know why I bother, these kinds of discussions are never ones of equal intellect.

Since you brought up the issue: Regurgitating empty slogans and marketing/management dogma and trying to shift the burden of proof certainly underscores your intellectual superiority.

 

[beernbourbon]

...are you getting paid for writing this?



Since you brought up the issue: Regurgitating empty slogans and marketing/management dogma and trying to shift the burden of proof certainly underscores your intellectual superiority.

Ha, nope. I just have spent my life working my way from worker bee to upper management in my profession, educating myself in business and have a clear understanding of what it takes to work, create and survive with a business. My responses may have been a bit snarky, and for that I apologize. I just have a low tolerance for people that don't truly understand, nor TRY to understand what it takes to keep a consumer driven business running and growing. I have been taught to look outside of oneself and see the whole picture. I am loyal to, and believe in, the concept of the American dream. Albeit naive, it's how I was raised and is my opinion. Many have stated theirs, and I applaud them for that, I simply ask that we discuss these issues with open minds.
With that, for my part, I am done discussing an issue that is neither ours to decide, nor Stone's to justify/prove. They made a business decision and our reactions to that decision are ours to decide individually. No different than the current political situation, all I ask is we base those decisions/reactions on (somehow) unbiased information.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

LOL, it's open 24/7, and I don't have to worry about drinking and driving

Please tell me where in the Newark area beer is $0.35 per glass.

35 cents!?

I'll be there. Tomorrow!

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Ha, nope. I just have spent my life working my way from worker bee to upper management in my profession, educating myself in business and have a clear understanding of what it takes to work, create and survive with a business. My responses may have been a bit snarky, and for that I apologize. I just have a low tolerance for people that don't truly understand, nor TRY to understand what it takes to keep a consumer driven business running and growing. I have been taught to look outside of oneself and see the whole picture. I am loyal to, and believe in, the concept of the American dream. Albeit naive, it's how I was raised and is my opinion. Many have stated theirs, and I applaud them for that, I simply ask that we discuss these issues with open minds.
With that, for my part, I am done discussing an issue that is neither ours to decide, nor Stone's to justify/prove. They made a business decision and our reactions to that decision are ours to decide individually. No different than the current political situation, all I ask is we base those decisions/reactions on (somehow) unbiased information.

Of course it's theirs to justify/prove. They want us to give them our money.

Anyway, it's not the snark I object to; it's the smuggardry coupled to an argument which is reducible to "Napoleon Management is Always Right"!

 

[k1ngl1ves]

And laying off employees is just the eb and flow of business. Happens in all industries.

Behavioral economics has shown that it's better for moral to layoff 5% of employees than to reduce overall salaries by 5% and keep all staff.

If you reduce salaries it leads to an overall decline in moral and unhappy staff as a whole versus the layoff.

Well, how much did they pay this 1 guy to come in and lead the show?


Probably could have paid that 5% a lifetime salary of work and then some.


The dollar bill seems to defy gravity. It only moves up... never down.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

View attachment 373488

Sorting replies, that's two beers in the top 80 on our own webpage.

Again, they're not my favorite, and I'm not going to try to speak for anyone else's preferences. But clearly, they do make good beer.

Miller Lite wins a ton of awards too. So...

 

[Barley_Bob]

Miller Lite wins a ton of awards too. So...

Sooo... clearly they have excellent brand recognition and marketing.

 

[skraeling]

What craft beer are you buying that costs less than $10 for a six pack?

Urban chestnut Zwickel. 4 pints 8.99

 

[Dynachrome]

Comment deleted.

 

[stonebrewer]

Stone makes some really good beers. Their Enjoy By series is almost always heavenly and I LOVE the concept. I rarely see that beer in stores past the expiration date...wish I could say the same about other beers. I really think it is criminal that delicious IPAs sit on the shelf for >3 months and (less informed) people buy them. This is an argument for supporting local breweries, because in general they are small and don't make enough product to languish on shelves. That said, I see DC Brau cans that are > 6 months old too. Ugh! I think this is the challenge for Stone's new CEO...make all of their beers as fresh as possible and do not put product in areas where it will languish. Part of this is proper pricing, and a lot of it is good inventory management. Ideas like Enjoy By are innovative and I appreciate them because it is CLEARLY stated on the label to enjoy the beer in just a few weeks. I drink beer from a lot of breweries, both local and national (and homebrew, naturally). I want my beer fresh and at the right price point, just as most do. I will continue to drink Stone beers and brew clones of them (esp. AB!). Glad the Richmond plant is underway as that can only mean more FRESH beers...however, if they sell pallets of IPA to Total Beverage, I will be that guy checking dates on bottles and passing when TB buys too much and beers stale on their shelves. I don't play the price game...I buy what I want and I brew what I want. I love Trillium, for instance, but since I can only get it a couple of times a year, I brew clones in between to get me through.

It is also interesting to listen to folks on here talking about how expensive this beer or that beer is. It really is a factor of location. For instance, when I am in a DC bar, I am expecting to pay around $8-9 for a full pour of about anything. When I fly out to Seattle, I am paying a third to a half that!! I am sure that makes it tough for a national company like Stone to properly price their beer. In San Diego, they may get 2x what they get in heartland, so do they price everything the same and not sell in some regions? I don't know what they do frankly, but it is an interesting problem...that the new CEO has.

As far as his decision to layoff some folks, I really don't have enough information to comment on that. If you feel it is a d!ck move, vote with your wallet. There are a TON of choices, and everyone will have to make his own decision. As for me, I am going to pick up a sixer of the latest EB tomorrow. YMMV! Cheers!

 

[Desertbrewer]

My parents are in a bowling league down in North County SD with a bunch of Stone sales reps, drivers and some brewery workers, many of them having worked for Stone for 10+ years. Last week they went to league night and half of the guys didn't show cause they were laid off. My parents said one of the guys that remained has been working in distribution for them for 15 years and he thinks this coming week will be another whole round of layoffs.

It's a bummer when a "good company" that these guys loved to work for does them dirty like that. That's business I suppose.

I'll update if they get anymore pertinent info as to what's happening.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

My parents are in a bowling league down in North County SD with a bunch of Stone sales reps, drivers and some brewery workers, many of them having worked for Stone for 10+ years. Last week they went to league night and half of the guys didn't show cause they were laid off. My parents said one of the guys that remained has been working in distribution for them for 15 years and he thinks this coming week will be another whole round of layoffs.

It's a bummer when a "good company" that these guys loved to work for does them dirty like that. That's business I suppose.

I'll update if they get anymore pertinent info as to what's happening.

Those Arrogant Bastards!






Sorry. Couldn't help myself...

 

[Gerry_P]

It makes sense that Stone would be suffering because of the massive numbers of new breweries, who hope to take advantage of the craft beer craze, popping up everywhere. Many of them are selling mediocre products at inflated prices, and many of them will probably go out of business in a few years after things die down. Stone is practically an institution among craft breweries, they aren't going anywhere.

 

[ImNoExpert]

It makes sense that Stone would be suffering because of the massive numbers of new breweries, who hope to take advantage of the craft beer craze, popping up everywhere. Many of them are selling mediocre products at inflated prices, and many of them will probably go out of business in a few years after things die down. Stone is practically an institution among craft breweries, they aren't going anywhere.

I don't get that. All I hear about is how rocking the craft beer industry is. If competition is seriously putting that much of a dent in Stone's sales wouldn't that imply that Stone is falling behind as an industry innovator, thus not staying relevant to craft beer drinker's tastes?

That or the industry is hitting the ceiling on the market and Stone is adapting to it.

 

[iijakii]

I don't get that. All I hear about is how rocking the craft beer industry is. If competition is seriously putting that much of a dent in Stone's sales wouldn't that imply that Stone is falling behind as an industry innovator, thus not staying relevant to craft beer drinker's tastes?

Not necessarily. The better (which is a bad term for me to use since we're talking about personal taste) product doesn't necessarily win. Even if you love Stone, you see three new IPAs on the shelf you've never tried before, odds are you might give 'em a shot. Even if you go back to Stone, that's putting a dent in their sales.

We've also been seeing a rise in people paying attention to where their food is coming from and aiming for local sourcing, same seems to be true for beverages as well. I have to go to the good beer stores to get more than two different Stone offerings. Wasn't the case years ago, but there are more breweries than shelf space these days.

 

[Gerry_P]

I don't get that. All I hear about is how rocking the craft beer industry is. If competition is seriously putting that much of a dent in Stone's sales wouldn't that imply that Stone is falling behind as an industry innovator, thus not staying relevant to craft beer drinker's tastes?

That or the industry is hitting the ceiling on the market and Stone is adapting to it.

Good points. I'm speculating here, but maybe it has something to do with Stone being mainly associated with IPA style beers. There's about a bazillion IPAs on the market now, so I wouldn't be surprised if Stone is seeing a dip in sales because of that simply because it's getting lost in the pile. Maybe the renewed interest in patronizing local breweries is a factor too. There could also be a mindset, particularly among some newer craft beer enthusiasts, that newer is better so they think Stone isn't cool or something. Maybe the demons on their bottles are scaring people, idk. I'm blaming aliens.

 

[DemonsRun]

Stone brewery replied to the lay-offs

http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/stone-brewing-sends-two-statements-layoffs-one-specifically-richmond-rumors/

 

[Gerry_P]

Not necessarily. The better (which is a bad term for me to use since we're talking about personal taste) product doesn't necessarily win. Even if you love Stone, you see three new IPAs on the shelf you've never tried before, odds are you might give 'em a shot. Even if you go back to Stone, that's putting a dent in their sales.

We've also been seeing a rise in people paying attention to where their food is coming from and aiming for local sourcing, same seems to be true for beverages as well. I have to go to the good beer stores to get more than two different Stone offerings. Wasn't the case years ago, but there are more breweries than shelf space these days.

I swear I wrote my comment before yours popped up. Great minds, etc.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Stone brewery replied to the lay-offs

http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/stone-brewing-sends-two-statements-layoffs-one-specifically-richmond-rumors/

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Paps]

What makes Stone's IPA worth $10 for a six pack?

Around here, even bottled AB products are 8 bucks a six pack (Michelobe)
Sam Adams are 8-9 a sixer pre-tax and IMHO the best deal on craft brew is Boulevard and they are over 8 after tax.
My point is that ten a sixer isn't too outrageous.
But there is an old saying......"Any item is only worth what you can suckeer somebody into paying for it." If you feel that ten dollars is too much for their product, don't buy it. If you do feel that it is a fair price by all means go ahead and buy it.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Around here, even bottled AB products are 8 bucks a six pack (Michelobe)
Sam Adams are 8-9 a sixer pre-tax and IMHO the best deal on craft brew is Boulevard and they are over 8 after tax.
My point is that ten a sixer isn't too outrageous.
But there is an old saying......"Any item is only worth what you can suckeer somebody into paying for it." If you feel that ten dollars is too much for their product, don't buy it. If you do feel that it is a fair price by all means go ahead and buy it.

I've been meaning to comment back in on this point, so thanks for the reminder!

I can get Sam Adams, Leinenkugel, and Schlafly (when it's on sale) for less than $10 where I'm at. $10 is common here, and that includes Sierra Nevada, Oskar Blues, and what ever else they have on the shelf. It seems to me that $10 a sixer has become really standard, but if folks are getting better deals, more power to them.

With that said, I'm also seeing an increasing number priced even higher! Ballast Point's Sculpin seems to have broken a ceiling, and other brands are following them up.

 

[Gerry_P]

Around here Sierra Torpedo is $15/12 pack. That's the best deal around. Stone runs $10 and over for 6, but most other good stuff runs between $8 and $10 for a 6 pack. Other than Abita, the local beers such as NOLA and Urban South and are usually 9 or 10. I'm a fan of NOLA brewery, but when I see stores charging $10 for NOLA Brown I'm calling shenanigans.

 

[stonebrewer]

Stone brewery replied to the lay-offs

http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/stone-brewing-sends-two-statements-layoffs-one-specifically-richmond-rumors/

Interesting read. Thanks for posting. What I got out of it was that Stone is seeing pressure from InBev and the like, and I can see that in my local stores, as some delicious brews from places like Elysian are showing up, not to mention contract brewers like Green Flash supplying the East Coast with delicious Alpine offerings. That's stiff competition to go with all the other fine IPAs out there. Seems that the market is getting saturated with great beers. My fear is that great IPAs will start sitting on shelves, though I think SOMEONE out there might be thinking about this finally. I noticed that one of my favorite IPAs, Firestone Walker's Double Jack used to sit on TB's shelves. A few weeks ago, their shelf space was greatly reduced and they had very fresh (week old!) sixers, of which I bought one. This week, the shelf was empty. Could it be that the big chains are finally seeing the light on the "IPA problem"? Also noticing a lot more local brews on the shelf...this has GOT to be putting pressure on the bigger, more national breweries like Stone, who are IPA-centric.

Second thing I took from this was the severance package was pretty nice. Look, if you have ever been to San Diego, brewing jobs seem to be on every street corner. My guess is these folks just made bank and are going to get picked up by one of the thousand breweries in the area. Change is NOT always a bad thing!!

Stone is still a huge employer and I suspect they will continue to grow, but face it they grew REALLY fast. They have the airport location, the original one in Escondido, and the one in Liberty Station. On top of that, a huge move in Germany (which my German friends are praising!!) and the East Coast hookup in Richmond. They have also made some (IMHO) mistakes along the way, reformulating beers I loved to be something I don't (Ruination 2, I am looking at you!).

Finally, the market. There are so many new breweries, more coming each day, that will cut away at a national breweries share of the market. In this area, which I would not exactly call a beer mecca, there seems to be a new brewery popping up every couple of months. Places like Seattle seem to have a brewery on every block. Local is making a huge push, and those of us that like fresh will patronize them as long as they make quality beers. Interesting times...can be a curse for a brewery. Cheers!

 

[Phunhog]

Interesting read. Thanks for posting. What I got out of it was that Stone is seeing pressure from InBev and the like, and I can see that in my local stores, as some delicious brews from places like Elysian are showing up, not to mention contract brewers like Green Flash supplying the East Coast with delicious Alpine offerings. That's stiff competition to go with all the other fine IPAs out there. Seems that the market is getting saturated with great beers. My fear is that great IPAs will start sitting on shelves, though I think SOMEONE out there might be thinking about this finally. I noticed that one of my favorite IPAs, Firestone Walker's Double Jack used to sit on TB's shelves. A few weeks ago, their shelf space was greatly reduced and they had very fresh (week old!) sixers, of which I bought one. This week, the shelf was empty. Could it be that the big chains are finally seeing the light on the "IPA problem"? Also noticing a lot more local brews on the shelf...this has GOT to be putting pressure on the bigger, more national breweries like Stone, who are IPA-centric.

Second thing I took from this was the severance package was pretty nice. Look, if you have ever been to San Diego, brewing jobs seem to be on every street corner. My guess is these folks just made bank and are going to get picked up by one of the thousand breweries in the area. Change is NOT always a bad thing!!

Stone is still a huge employer and I suspect they will continue to grow, but face it they grew REALLY fast. They have the airport location, the original one in Escondido, and the one in Liberty Station. On top of that, a huge move in Germany (which my German friends are praising!!) and the East Coast hookup in Richmond. They have also made some (IMHO) mistakes along the way, reformulating beers I loved to be something I don't (Ruination 2, I am looking at you!).

Finally, the market. There are so many new breweries, more coming each day, that will cut away at a national breweries share of the market. In this area, which I would not exactly call a beer mecca, there seems to be a new brewery popping up every couple of months. Places like Seattle seem to have a brewery on every block. Local is making a huge push, and those of us that like fresh will patronize them as long as they make quality beers. Interesting times...can be a curse for a brewery. Cheers!

Don't know if you heard. Firestone is discontinuing Double Jack��. It
Might be available as a seasonal though at their pubs. Apparently they noticed a lot of their beer is sitting on the shelves and it is not as fresh as they intended. They are trying to put a positive spin on it but I have my doubts.

 

[g-star]

Sad, but inevitable and I expect we will see more of this along with increased pace of buyouts by the big conglomerates.

Stone was cutting edge 10 years ago, but the trend toward "hyper local" and the overall complete saturation of the shelf space with all of the other guys must be doing some serious damage to their market share.

Right now, people are turning away from the big craft brands that are really seen as "stale" now. Think about what is really popular - the tiny breweries with limited distribution turning out the turbid hop juice offerings they call beer. Beers like Stone Ruination or FW Double Jack are seen as passé, despite the fact that they are really great beers. If interest drops in your core lineup, it is hard to make that up with one-offs and specialty brews at the scale these guys are attempting to operate at.

 

[bbohanon]

I have not been impressed with whats coming out of Stone over the last 2 years...their Stone Farking Stout this year was horrible (Loved the bottle design though so it make a great drinking glass once I cut the top off with my Kinka cutter) and tasted like I was drinking liquid charcoal. I took 3 sips and dumped it.

Around here in NC, its not that they are that expensive to buy, there are just better options on the shelf (and even better options in my keezer that I personally make).

In regards to the quality @Stone, I don't expect their beer to get better with Koch leaving the CEO perch and I would not be surprised if they are priming for a sell-off.
Time to trim the fat and run the business like a typical ****ty corporate business and push quantity, not quality so MillerCoors/AB/Inbev/Constellation will snap you up for a boatload of cash.

 

[stonebrewer]

Don't know if you heard. Firestone is discontinuing Double Jack��. It
Might be available as a seasonal though at their pubs. Apparently they noticed a lot of their beer is sitting on the shelves and it is not as fresh as they intended. They are trying to put a positive spin on it but I have my doubts.

Say it ain't so!! Oh well, it was hard to get fresh on the East Coast anyhow. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[ImNoExpert]

Sad, but inevitable and I expect we will see more of this along with increased pace of buyouts by the big conglomerates.

Stone was cutting edge 10 years ago, but the trend toward "hyper local" and the overall complete saturation of the shelf space with all of the other guys must be doing some serious damage to their market share.

Right now, people are turning away from the big craft brands that are really seen as "stale" now. Think about what is really popular - the tiny breweries with limited distribution turning out the turbid hop juice offerings they call beer.

"Hyper local" I saw that term too. I'm assuming they mean "local" as opposed to "regional".

Also I agree with you, people are turning away from the big craft brands. They have been for years. Sam Adams, Yuengling, Sierra Nevada, etc. They all seem like giants of yesteryear and not cutting edge.

[Onion on belt]I remember when Zombie Dust was cutting edge. Now it seems like all the others who followed or copied it.[/Onion on belt]

 

[ImNoExpert]

Also I agree with you, people are turning away from the big craft brands. They have been for years. Sam Adams, Yuengling, Sierra Nevada, etc. They all seem like giants of yesteryear and not cutting edge.

I should add that I still drink the "Brands of Yesteryear" every now and again. Usually seasonal that I loved that got me hooked to craft beer more than a decade ago.

 

[akthor]

"turning out the turbid hop juice offerings they call beer"

Thank god I'm not the only one who feels this way.