Stir Plate Yeast Starter Extremely Fast Ferment ??!

[Sharkman]

Morning guys,

I'm stepping up a lager yeast..

I started with a smack pack and let its do its magic on a stir plate with dme..

After 36 hrs I cold crashed and decanted.. Then made another batch of dme. Threw it in the flask and put it back on the stir plate for another round..

Within an hour it was going crazy and 5 hours later was in full swing rumbling like crazy...

Now 15 hrs later It's done ? Everything is flat with no signs of action anymore.

Is this starter done ? Can I take it off the stir plate after just 15 hrs ? Or is there a point to leave it on for another 24 hrs..

I ask this cause I wanna make another yeast starter with a different strain so I need the stir plate.. Was gunna leave this starter in the fridge for a couple days before brew day.

 

[Big Monk]

What was your initial starter volume? What was it when you stepped it up?

 

[JonM]

I've seen it finish up in less than a day. I imagine fresh wort on already-active yeast would go super fast. I bet it's done. If that's the case, there's no benefit to leaving it on the plate any longer.

 

[Sharkman]

Initial volume was 2 litres and then decanted it off to 250ml so I added 1750 more of new dme to have another 2 litre starter with ton more yeast

 

[Big Monk]

Initial volume was 2 litres and then decanted it off to 250ml so I added 1750 more of new dme to have another 2 litre starter with ton more yeast

You likely didn't get much growth on the second step as it was the exact same size as the first.

A step implies going from a smaller volume to a larger volume. You didn't provide a large enough volume to promote growth beyond the maximum cell density.

My .02 at least.

 

[Big Monk]

You likely didn't get much growth on the second step as it was the exact same size as the first.

A step implies going from a smaller volume to a larger volume. You didn't provide a large enough volume to promote growth beyond the maximum cell density.

My .02 at least.

 

[Sharkman]

How do you propose I get bigger growth ? I mean I only have a 2l flask ?

 

[Redlantern]

Just curious - are you growing your own yeast or preparing for a batch? This is a process with which I am not familiar and if it has value for me, I am interested.

 

[JonM]

How do you propose I get bigger growth ? I mean I only have a 2l flask ?

I really don't mean to sound like a smartass, but you need a bigger flask. When you're talking lagers, it doesn't take much to max out the capacity of a 2l flask. 2L is great for nearly all ale starters, but too small for lagers.

If you have a gallon glass jug, that might help if you can get the stirbar to stay put. Also, I bet you could pour your current slurry into a sanitized bottle or something and get a second starter going to get some more growth.

 

[DurtyChemist]

How do you propose I get bigger growth ? I mean I only have a 2l flask ?

It probably finished faster because you pitched double the number of cells in the second batch.

Propagation is the solution you're looking for. Next time you do a step up you should decant a lot of the yeast cells into a separate container THEN add wort and you'll grow more cells.

 

[Big Monk]

How do you propose I get bigger growth ? I mean I only have a 2l flask ?

You likely don't need it. Why do you think you need more growth? Do you think you need more than 400 billion cells?

 

[Sharkman]

Interesting...

What if I take the 2l flask when it's done.. Decante all the liquid off into another flask while leave the yeast cake..

Then the liquid that got decanted pore new dme wort into that and place it on the stirplate..

And the yeast cask il leave a bit of liquid in the flask and save it in the fridge.. Then combine the 2 after ?

Will that decanted liquid have enough yeast in it to start a new batch again and produce enough yeast ?

 

[Big Monk]

Interesting...

What if I take the 2l flask when it's done.. Decante all the liquid off into another flask while leave the yeast cake..

Then the liquid that got decanted pore new dme wort into that and place it on the stirplate..

And the yeast cask il leave a bit of liquid in the flask and save it in the fridge.. Then combine the 2 after ?

Will that decanted liquid have enough yeast in it to start a new batch again and produce enough yeast ?

How much yeast do you need? Your original starter likely produced ~400 billion cells. How big of a batch is this?

 

[Sharkman]

You likely don't need it. Why do you think you need more growth? Do you think you need more than 400 billion cells?

I'm making a 10 gallon batch so it's calling for 703 billion cells

I'm also thinking maybe il just split the batch and do two different strains of yeast.

 

[Big Monk]

I'm making a 10 gallon batch so it's calling for 703 billion cells

I'm also thinking maybe il just split the batch and do two different strains of yeast.

The only way to increase the yeast biomass is to either do separate 2L starters and combine them or provide the biomass you currently have with a larger volume of starter wort.

2L of starter wort has a maximum cell density of ~400 billion cells. So if you pitched 200 billion cells into 2L again you will have gained nothing in the way of biomass growth.

 

[Sharkman]

Makes sense..

So what's your thoughts if for this 10 gallon batch I split it into 2 5 gallon batches and then make 2 different yeast strain starters.. So that would be 400 billion each 5 gallon batch..

Then in future I need a bigger vessel for a yeast starter of this size..

Or the next batch I will try and capture the yeast from my primary's after this batch is done... Wash it up

 

[JonM]

You'll get 400 bn cells in a 2L flask IF your snack pack was packaged yesterday. You should account for lost yeast viability due to age.

 

[JonM]

Makes sense..

So what's your thoughts if for this 10 gallon batch I split it into 2 5 gallon batches and then make 2 different yeast strain starters.. So that would be 400 billion each 5 gallon batch..

Then in future I need a bigger vessel for a yeast starter of this size..

Or the next batch I will try and capture the yeast from my primary's after this batch is done... Wash it up

You could make a 3 or 4 gallon batch of real beer (aka a GIANT starter) bottle it and then use the whole yeast cake for the 10-gal batch. (Check a calculator for the appropriate size of the first one).

 

[Big Monk]

You'll get 400 bn cells in a 2L flask IF your snack pack was packaged yesterday. You should account for lost yeast viability due to age.

Very good point.

I prefer the "Shaken, Not Stirred" starter method. Healthy, vital yeast pitched at high krausen and ready to devour.

 

[Sharkman]

Correct it runs at 371 billion with the package date taken into effect..

I looked up a 5000ml flask and they are $60 ouch but could be a good investment.

Thanks for all the help guys.. I would hate to underpitch wort after all that hard work making it

 

[JonM]

Seriously - I bet if you pitch that 2L starter into like a 3 gallon batch, then pitch 10 gal on the 3 gal batch's yeast cake, you'll have 13 gallons of beer.

 

[Sharkman]

That's a lot of brewing hah..

I'm gunna split the bAtch so it's 5 and 5 ..

Got an American lager already done
Now I have the bohemian lager on the stir plate.. It's a bit old though.. Nov 3rd

 

[DurtyChemist]

Interesting...



What if I take the 2l flask when it's done.. Decante all the liquid off into another flask while leave the yeast cake..



Then the liquid that got decanted pore new dme wort into that and place it on the stirplate..



And the yeast cask il leave a bit of liquid in the flask and save it in the fridge.. Then combine the 2 after ?



Will that decanted liquid have enough yeast in it to start a new batch again and produce enough yeast ?

You'd have close to 3.5L of watery wort/beer mixture with a some yeast cells. Sounds like a horrible idea.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Makes sense..

So what's your thoughts if for this 10 gallon batch I split it into 2 5 gallon batches and then make 2 different yeast strain starters.. So that would be 400 billion each 5 gallon batch..

Then in future I need a bigger vessel for a yeast starter of this size..

This is a much better idea. You don't even need to have different yeast. You can simply keep some from the first starter to make a second starter. This would be the same as chilling, decanting, removing yeast and starting a second step as I said above. Either you get a much larger flask which makes me still wonder about equal pitching, or you do two starters and keep wort sanitary for a day or two.

 

[Gavin C]

Correct it runs at 371 billion with the package date taken into effect..



I looked up a 5000ml flask and they are $60 ouch but could be a good investment.



Thanks for all the help guys.. I would hate to underpitch wort after all that hard work making it

5L flask $40. Order some other goodies and the shipping is free.



Indispensable if making lagers IMO.



Using one now.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451350698.065850.jpg

 

[Big Monk]

Have any of you explored the non-stir plate starter methods being discussed at the AHA Forum?

Many of us over there have taken to either using the "Shaken, not Stirred" pitched at high krausen or "No Stir with Pure O2" pitched at high krausen. The results have all been stellar especially with consideration to big reduction in lag times and overall yeast health in general.

Number of cells required seems to drop based on the vigor of a starter pitched at high krausen (i.e. Yeast at peak health and max replication).

Not to mention the vessel required is cheaper (1 gallon jug).

 

[CrankyBeaverBrewery]

Just bought the 5000ML flask for lagers so i can not have to worry about make it all right.

 

[Sharkman]

Also just bought the big flask to solve this issue.

This is a much better idea. You don't even need to have different yeast. You can simply keep some from the first starter to make a second starter. This would be the same as chilling, decanting, removing yeast and starting a second step as I said above. Either you get a much larger flask which makes me still wonder about equal pitching, or you do two starters and keep wort sanitary for a day or two.

I kinda wanted to use 2 different strains ( American & Bohemian ) so i can see the taste differences in the beer and kinda refine a nice lager to what i like..

then next batch il use that new 5000 Ml flask i just got and boom ! ... take that smack pack through it in a 2000 ML flask.. 36 hours later. Decant and throw it into the 5000 ML flask and boom !! 700-750 Billion cells.