Stir plate, build, buy, or not necessary

[sibelman]

gallon jug

Not as beautiful as an Ehrlenmeyer flask, but fairly tough and almost free.

 

[madman960]

Reading through the dry yeast FAQ, it says 10ml per water per gram of yeast. I think this is similar to what I used to do. 110 ml is 3.72 Oz. If I started after the boil, I added yeast to my warm water. If I started a day or 2 before brewing, I added a tablespoon of sugar to the water before adding the yeast.i never noticed any issues. I am leaning towards building a fermentation chamber this go round.

 

[sibelman]

fermentation chamber

Irrespective of your yeast strategy and the question of stir plate vs. SNS, a temperature-controlled fermentation chamber is a great thing.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used to put water, a little table sugar, and dry yeast in the flask for a couple hours before pitching. I would swirl by hand every 20-30 minutes if I was around.

Plain sugar is not beneficial for yeast, she needs nutrition. The easiest is to use wort, either from DME/LME or homemade (saved from a previous batch and kept frozen).

I did order a large flask.

Please don't boil wort in a (glass) flask on a stove top. Sooner or later the flask will crack and make a huge mess.

Instead, boil up your wort in a large enough (kitchen) pot on the stove. When done, put on a well fitting lid, and let cool in a sink or tub with cold water. One or 2 refreshes with cold water will get it quickly to room temps. Then pour the starter wort into the flask.

2 liter flasks are a good size to handle.
Larger ones (3 to 5 liter) may be cumbersome. Or the stir plate may not be powerful enough to create a decent vortex.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I tend to think that a SnS or Vitality Starter approach works great when you are starting off with a reasonable amount of yeast and you want to ensure you are pitching healthy yeast into your batch. A stir plate works much better when you are trying to build up yeast cells say for an overbuilt starter, reviving an old pack of yeast, or building up harvested yeast. I use a mix of both methods depending on my goal...and I also direct pitch dry yeast often as well.

I got by for many years without a stir plate. I ended up picking up a cheap one off Amazon a about 2 years ago (this one: https://a.co/d/2oPlZ56) and it has been a valuable addition to my brewing gear.

 

[madman960]

I tend to think that a SnS or Vitality Starter approach works great when you are starting off with a reasonable amount of yeast and you want to ensure you are pitching healthy yeast into your batch. A stir plate works much better when you are trying to build up yeast cells say for an overbuilt starter, reviving an old pack of yeast, or building up harvested yeast. I use a mix of both methods depending on my goal...and I also direct pitch dry yeast often as well.

I got by for many years without a stir plate. I ended up picking up a cheap one off Amazon a about 2 years ago (this one: https://a.co/d/2oPlZ56) and it has been a valuable addition to my brewing gear.

Thanks!! I added the kit to my cart.

 

[InspectorJon]

Instead, boil up your wort in a large enough (kitchen) pot on the stove. When done, put on a well fitting lid, and let cool in a sink or tub with cold water. One or 2 refreshes with cold water will get it quickly to room temps. Then pour the starter wort into the flask.

Be sure to wipe the water off the outside of the pan before pouring the contents into the flask/jar. If you don’t unsanitary water from the outside of the pan will drip into your “sterile” wort. Don’t ask how I know about that.

 

[day_trippr]

^that is a true concern^ so I always set the chilled pot on a dishtowel first then wipe the sides dry, too...

Cheers!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Reading this thread is making me think that SNS has fallen from favor. Is this true and if so, why?

I can't say that I know the answer, but I do know that SNS is much more popular on the AHBS forum whereas it never really seemed to catch fire over here. Things can be a bit sycophantic on the AHBS forum, so folks tend to quickly fall in line behind whatever the latest trend happens to be. By contrast, this forum seems to be much more open to rational discussion. I don't want to assume too much, but I get the feeling that most of the participants on this forum looked at SNS, thought "Gee, that's neat," then wondered "What does that solve?" A stir plate works flawlessly, so why change it up?

I have years of experience with both techniques and I can report that both techniques work great. Primarily, I've been using SNS for about 4-5 years and have no complaints. I've also continued to use stirplates for specific circumstances during that time. In fact, I recently treated myself to a brand new commercial stirplate and retired my ancient homebrew computer fan-based stirplate.

As a guy that has a dedicated lager and ale fermenter, I tend to run a strain for months at a time on a seasonal basis. I think SNS is really handy for those times when a keg fails to open up and a fermenter (especially an ale fermenter) hangs up in the cold crash for weeks longer than expected. I tend to keg the night before a brew day, so it's super simple to grab a bit of yeast, stick it in a 1 gallon jar, shake the hell out of it, and have it ready the next day.

I bought the new stir plate because I'd like to add more variety to my yeast strain usage. Yeah, I know the AHBS forum says you're supposed to be able to use SNS with a slant, but I'm not buying that. I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just seems like a lot can go wrong and I'm pretty good at stuffing things up, so I plan to start using the stir plate a bit more often in the years ahead. I have no plans to abandon SNS. I'll just use the technique that's best suited for the application.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I don't want to assume too much, but I get the feeling that most of the participants on this forum looked at SNS, thought "Gee, that's neat," then wondered "What does that solve?" A stir plate works flawlessly, so why change it up?

I challenged the idea on that forum, I don't think it's easier, stir plate produces a greater mass and can be every bit as healthy as SNS. There is also the claim that stir plates cause yeast shear. There no evidence of yeast shear, if there was yeast shear it would cause a permanent haze in the finished beer.

I got a lot of push back and it seemed more of an emotional response than a logical reasoning. The ideas behind SNS are not new.

To me the stir plate easier, just set it and forget it. SNS requires the same prep as a starter on a stir plate without the stir bar, there is no time saved. I think the reason people like it better is because they pitch the SNS at full krausen, but I recommend this with a stir plate. When I brew lagers, I cold crash the starter just past high krausen for a couple of days before pitching, the lag time is @ 12-16 hours @ 48F. Pitching at high krausen is better than letting a starter set on a stir plate too long. Stirring the yeast when there is no food available is hard on the yeast.

 

[tracer bullet]

To me the stir plate easier, just set it and forget it

This is my thinking as well.

 

[mac_1103]

I think the reason people like it better is because they pitch the SNS at full krausen

Or maybe because they don't have to buy or build a stir plate and mess with magnets?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Instead, boil up your wort in a large enough (kitchen) pot on the stove. When done, put on a well fitting lid, and let cool in a sink or tub with cold water. One or 2 refreshes with cold water will get it quickly to room temps. Then pour the starter wort into the flask.

This is what I do, well sort of. I use either a ~32 oz pickle jar or a 1 gal jar/fermenter instead of a flask. I do have a 1L flask that I used to use and would boil in the flask. I thought about getting a larger one, but there are lots of stories of flasks breaking during boiling, the narrow opening makes boil overs way too common, and a decent quality large flask is easily $50+. $10 or free seemed like a better option for me.

 

[IslandLizard]

Be sure to wipe the water off the outside of the pan before pouring the contents into the flask/jar. If you don’t unsanitary water from the outside of the pan will drip into your “sterile” wort. Don’t ask how I know about that.

Yeah, that may not be common sense.
And we haven't talked about the lid either...

 

[day_trippr]

The lid is ok, what condenses on the inside of it was boiled water...

Cheers!

 

[DVCNick]

I actually have two stir plates and two 2L flasks for when I need to make a really big pitch.
Stir plates are cheap on Amazon, I never saw the need to figure out how to build one.

I did the "swish it around occasionally" thing for a while, but as above, the stir plate is so much easier... no need to come by and swish it, yeast doesn't start flocking until you want it to, and it takes the Co2 out on a consistent basis. I had several occurrences of the "SNS" method blowing up into the the foil cover on the flask; not good for sanitation.

I crash/decant the starter, then let the remaining slurry come up to room temp before pitching.

...all when I'm not using dry yeast, which is as much as reasonably possible.\

Edit... this is my first time every hearing the term "yeast shear"... will have to google that.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

this is my first time every hearing the term "yeast shear"... will have to google that.

This is usually a problem when yeast is harvested from a centrifuge. The forces in the centrifuge are so great it causes the yeast cells to shed protein off the cell walls. It's obviously hard on the cells and the protein that is shed from the cells can cause permanent haze in the beer. This is very unlikely to happen with a stir plate because the speed and power of the stir plate is so low.

 

[DVCNick]

This is usually a problem when yeast is harvested from a centrifuge. The forces in the centrifuge are so great it causes the yeast cells to shed protein off the cell walls. It's obviously hard on the cells and the protein that is shed from the cells can cause permanent haze in the beer. This is very unlikely to happen with a stir plate because the speed and power of the stir plate is so low.

Ah.. thanks, yeah I'm going to say that's not an issue for me.

I don't even run the stir plate on a high speed; just enough to keep it moving and keep the yeast in suspension.

 

[Deadalus]

This is usually a problem when yeast is harvested from a centrifuge. The forces in the centrifuge are so great it causes the yeast cells to shed protein off the cell walls. It's obviously hard on the cells and the protein that is shed from the cells can cause permanent haze in the beer. This is very unlikely to happen with a stir plate because the speed and power of the stir plate is so low.

I've been using stir plates for years, over 80 brews, not a problem.

This is what I do, well sort of. I use either a ~32 oz pickle jar or a 1 gal jar/fermenter instead of a flask. I do have a 1L flask that I used to use and would boil in the flask. I thought about getting a larger one, but there are lots of stories of flasks breaking during boiling, the narrow opening makes boil overs way too common, and a decent quality large flask is easily $50+. $10 or free seemed like a better option for me.

A 2000 ml flask runs about $25, a 3000 ml low 30's, a 5000 ml in the $50 + range. Those aren't really lab quality and I don't put mine on the stove. I didn't always consider thermal shock but never had one break from thermal shock either. Years ago I had one break on the stove. I warm the empty up under warm>hot water. Then initial cooling down hot water> cold water then ice bath. Usually they break from banging or dropping them.

No big deal if someone doesn't want to spend the money. It's just not as high a cell count otherwise. It's easy to forget to go back and shake the container.

I might try to build one someday just for kicks but the two I have were used and cheap. If I had to buy a computer fan and housing, not much to save there.

 

[EricFromLittleRhody]

Another long-time stir plate user here. Started with a fan-based homemade job, then bought the Maelstrom after a few years. I've got maybe 50 startes on that unit, and it's worked fine for me (fingers crossed). I will say, it's not the sturdiest thing in the world.

I also make up starter wort ahead of time. I make a 6 gallon or so 1.035-1.040 batch using whatever base malt I happen to have on hand, then pressure can the wort in 1-pint mason jars. It's definitely an investment in time, but it's really nice to be able to make a starter by just popping a few mason jars open, pouring them into a sanitized flask, and pitching yeast. And cheaper than using DME.

I've started to use dry yeast more these days, especially for cleaner beers, but there are some liquid yeasts that I love to use for Belgians, British beers, certain lagers, and so forth. Stir plate helps there.

 

[crazyjake19]

It's worth having a stir plate. Whether you want to build or buy is up to you, and whether or not you have the parts already.

I made mine with an old wine box, a PC fan, some magnets, a DC voltage regulator, a toggle light switch, and a 120V-12V rectifier ("wall wart"). All parts I already had on hand. Just had to buy magnetic stir bars.

If I didn't have any of that stuff, I probably would've just bought one.