Stinky beer

[puttster]

What went wrong?

BIAB 9 lbs of 8 month old 2-row malt barley, 1/2 lb of year old crystal plus 1 lb of boiled grits. For hops, 2/3 oz 17% AA Citra (60 min) and 1/3 oz Citra (5 min). Squeezed, added 1 lb sugar and fermented 12 days at 72 deg with Safale US-05 and 30 ml (1 oz) Lactic acid. Bottled 3 weeks ago.
Tartness is okay but beer is not. I cant tell if there is something wrong with the beer or if I just don't like Citra hops (actually I do not like IPA type beers anyway). But it has a not-pleasant aroma and is only drinkable if I add it 1:4 to my Bush Light.

I'm fixin to brew up another batch of beer, any recommendations?

Puttster

 

[jekeane]

describe the aroma. Citra smells like grapefruit and in large quantities can cause a ammonia (cat piss) smell for some people.

Did you only use 1oz of hops in the hole batch? 1/3oz of any hop in a 5 gallon batch would give you minimal aroma. Not sure if you were thinking this was and IPA or if you were associating Citra with the style, but IPA's regularly have upwards of 6-12oz of hops.

 

[puttster]

I am new to brewing so my nose is not experienced but to me the smell is like rotten hops, if that makes any sense.

 

[bruhaha]

30mL of lactic added to your fermenter? What was your goal of that addition?

 

[kh54s10]

12 days at 72 degrees is also a contributing factor. Maybe the main factor. Personally I wouldn't let US05 hit 70 degrees. When I use it I ferment at 64 degrees.

I have never used lactic acid and do not even know why it is used. I don't know if this is a factor.

I use flaked corn but never have used grits.

The age of the grains should not have been a problem if they were well stored.

With your hop additions (very small amount of later additions) I doubt that you are getting much flavor from them. I would have used quite a bit more.

 

[jwalk4]

What went wrong?

...fermented 12 days at 72 deg with Safale US-05 and 30 ml (1 oz) Lactic acid.

Puttster

I'm sure that this is a contributing factor. I use 1-3 ml for mash ph adjustment. You added the equivalent of ~30ml of lactic acid, post mashing.

That's enough to sour anything, I would think.

 

[bruhaha]

I'm sure that this is a contributing factor. I use 1-3 ml for mash ph adjustment. You added the equivalent of ~30ml of lactic acid, post mashing.

That's enough to sour anything, I would think.

I like to make Gose sours and typically use lactic acid in the mix, point being the end result is sour beer which you seem to have overdone. Using lactic to help in the pre-mash adjustment is typical in very small doses of 1 to 4 mL...but 30 mL post-mash is a huge dose of an acid (souring) agent. It has likely inhibited normal yeast development by dropping your ph critically low as well. My .02 is that huge lactic addition may be your culprit. If you have a ph meter, now would be a good time to see what your ph level is. Probably in the low 2's whereas healthy ph levels for beers are in the mid 5's on a ph scale. You beer possibly couldn't ferment and simply spoiled on you.

 

[TheMadKing]

I like to make Gose sours and typically use lactic acid in the mix, point being the end result is sour beer which you seem to have overdone. Using lactic to help in the pre-mash adjustment is typical in very small doses of 1 to 4 mL...but 30 mL post-mash is a huge dose of an acid (souring) agent. It has likely inhibited normal yeast development by dropping your ph as well. My .02 is that huge lactic addition may be your culprit.

He did indicate that the "tartness was ok" so I think the lactic acid was added intentionally to sour this beer, and 30mL (.16% by volume) is not unreasonable to drop the pH down to 3.5 or so, which is where yeast growth starts becoming inhibited. I agree that it could be a yeast issue, but I don't think it was necessarily caused by the lactic addition if he was going for a berliner-weisse type sour flavor.

Rotten vegetation smell makes me thing its DMDS .

OP, you said "squeezed" after talking about the hop additions... did you boil your grain?

It could also be from the boiled grits. I usually do a protein rest at 140 with corn grits and then add them to the mash, and never boil them. In fact, considering how closely linked the "cooked corn" flavor of DMS is linked to DMDS I strongly suspect that the grits are involved in this issue.

 

[bruhaha]

He did indicate that the "tartness was ok" so I think the lactic acid was added intentionally to sour this beer, and 30mL (.16% by volume) is not unreasonable to drop the pH down to 3.5 or so, which is where yeast growth starts becoming inhibited. I agree that it could be a yeast issue, but I don't think it was necessarily caused by the lactic addition if he was going for a berliner-weisse type sour flavor.

Rotten vegetation smell makes me thing its DMDS .

OP, you said "squeezed" after talking about the hop additions... did you boil your grain?

It could also be from the boiled grits. I usually do a protein rest at 140 with corn grits and then add them to the mash, and never boil them. In fact, considering how closely linked the "cooked corn" flavor of DMS is linked to DMDS I strongly suspect that the grits are involved in this issue.

Good points. The OP may have been attempting advanced brewing styles, but then again, we don't know his experience level per se.

When I do a lacto kettle soured beer, I use a HUGE starter usually triple stepped to overcome the hostile environment I subject the yeast to at 3.5 ph. One dry sachet of 05 may not be able to handle the environment.

 

[TheMadKing]

Good points. The OP may have been attempting advanced brewing styles, but then again, we don't know his experience level per se.

When I do a lacto kettle soured beer, I use a HUGE starter usually triple stepped to overcome the hostile environment I subject the yeast to at 3.5 ph. One dry sachet of 05 may not be able to handle the environment.

I'm about to make a berliner-weisse this weekend using US-05 with a lacto kettle soured beer. The recipe only calls for 1 sachet, and I've had this beer before (just never made it personally) and it's very good, but you're making me think I should make a bit of a starter from the US-05 or use two packets. Thanks for the tip!

 

[bruhaha]

I'm about to make a berliner-weisse this weekend using US-05 with a lacto kettle soured beer. The recipe only calls for 1 sachet, and I've had this beer before (just never made it personally) and it's very good, but you're making me think I should make a bit of a starter from the US-05 or use two packets. Thanks for the tip!

To the OP I apologize in advance. What's your method of kettle souring? This is a good time of year to get a quick sour with the heat wave we got going on....

 

[TheMadKing]

To the OP I apologize in advance. What's your method of kettle souring? This is a good time of year to get a quick sour with the heat wave we got going on....

Sorry too OP, @bruhaha I'll PM you with more info so we don't blow up this thread after this.

I got my method from a pro-brewer and this berliner-weisse is his flagship beer, so I feel it's fairly credible.

-Make a lacto starter consisting of 1L of 1.040 wort with a handful of uncrushed base malt left in my 100F garage for 4-5 days in a mason jar with 0 headspace.
-BIAB mash in my kettle, as normal for an OG of 1.040
-reduce temp to 120
-hook up my carb stone to CO2 and slowly bubble CO2 through the wort to prevent O2 intrusion (during the entire souring process.. very slow CO2 bubbling)
-Pitch my lacto starter
-Monitor pH for when it drops to 3.5
-Turn on the flame and boil and add hops
-chill
-pitch yeast as normal

 

[bruhaha]

Sorry too OP, @bruhaha I'll PM you with more info so we don't blow up this thread after this.

I got my method from a pro-brewer and this berliner-weisse is his flagship beer, so I feel it's fairly credible.

-Make a lacto starter consisting of 1L of 1.040 wort with a handful of uncrushed base malt left in my 100F garage for 4-5 days in a mason jar with 0 headspace.
-BIAB mash in my kettle, as normal for an OG of 1.040
-reduce temp to 120
-hook up my carb stone to CO2 and slowly bubble CO2 through the wort to prevent O2 intrusion (during the entire souring process.. very slow CO2 bubbling)
-Pitch my lacto starter
-Monitor pH for when it drops to 3.5
-Turn on the flame and boil and add hops
-chill
-pitch yeast as normal

PM coming

 

[puttster]

This is OP. Sorry I misinformed, the acid was added with the priming sugar at bottling time, not with the yeast. Yes I was trying for a sour beer. I just now looked for the box of grits to take a sniff but I see the Mrs. has thrown them out...

I'll try again, this time with only the barley malt as the grain bill, maybe limit the risks. I don't have a practical option to fermenting at room temperature, though.

OP here. It's a week later and the beer is actually becoming quite drinkable. Whatever was wrong with it (or me!) went away. I guess good beer comes to he who waits.