Still Mead Bottling
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No, you don’t want corks popping out with a temp increase.
That won't happen with 4 mm room left. We did many experiments recently in the beer forum. It turned out that oxidation due to headspace is a real thing, maybe even the main driver. It would be good to leave as little air as possible, while still leaving enough room for the liquid to expand should temperatures change. For half a litre beer bottles, it's about 4 mm based on my own experience. To little will crack the bottle or pop the cork.
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Falstaff
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Beer bottles. Should have specified. Crimp tops.
Golddiggie
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How are you planning to fill them? Bottling bucket and wand or a pressure (or counter pressure) filler/system? I use a beer gun to put mead into bottles. IMO, it's an easier method. It also allows me to put CO2 into the bottle before adding the mead.
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Bo
Bottling bucket and wand is all I have for now
I'll have to press it against the rim of the bottle to fill it up more. Maybe I'll just carb it.
Bottling bucket and wand is all I have for now
I'll have to press it against the rim of the bottle to fill it up more. Maybe I'll just carb it.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Last time I did that method for mead was in 2011 (for the initial batches started in 2010). Haven't done it that way since. I also, typically, use corking bottles for my mead. Once I've tested the currently aging batches, I'll probably end up getting a bunch of bottles and fill them up.
I also, typically, use corking bottles for my mead. Once I've tested the currently aging batches, I'll probably end up getting a bunch of bottles and fill them up.
For a bochet that probably wants to age quite a bit, you really should use corks and not pop caps.
YMMV.
YMMV.
Toxxyc
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You can also buy "oxygen thief" crown caps. Once they get wet they start absorbing oxygen in the headspace of the bottle.
During the tests here in the forum, they did nothing against oxidation from oxygen in the headspace... There were some pretty convincing pictures with neipas that turned brown.
Toxxyc
New and loving it
I have to admit I have no experience with them either. I guess I was wrong that they're working (not that I use caps anymore anyway).
To prevent oxidisation you can always add a dose of potassium or sodium metabisulfite. It's a very, very strong antioxidant. Even some citric or ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) will work.
To prevent oxidisation you can always add a dose of potassium or sodium metabisulfite. It's a very, very strong antioxidant. Even some citric or ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) will work.
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Falstaff
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Yeah, I have those caps. And yes, they seem like a gimmick. Shouldn't the already be saturated with oxygen by sitting on my shelf?
I'll look into corking. Just seems like a ton of work, and money for the equipment id have to buy.
Then you also need to worry about any leftover fermentation pushing the corks out.
Ultimately I may just use the beer bottles and fill them more. Or, give up and just carb them up a bit. I've just had trouble carbing the one mead I've made so far, so I wanted to avoid even trying this time.
I'll look into corking. Just seems like a ton of work, and money for the equipment id have to buy.
Then you also need to worry about any leftover fermentation pushing the corks out.
Ultimately I may just use the beer bottles and fill them more. Or, give up and just carb them up a bit. I've just had trouble carbing the one mead I've made so far, so I wanted to avoid even trying this time.
I also had high hopes for these caps but they really seemed to do nothing. Best results were with as little headspace as possible, no matter the cap.
I think there were also tests done with small doses of vitamin c and these also looked very promising.
Bottle conditioning didn't do anything against the oxygen in the headspace I'm afraid. It doesn't dissolve rapidly enough into the liquid so there's a lot left after yeast finished fermenting in the bottle and then it oxidises the beer.
I doubt that either corks or crown caps can absorb oxygen already in the headspace. As @Falstaff said, they would already be saturated with oxygen before use. What they should do is prevent additional oxygen from entering the bottle. The crown caps I use are "oxygen barrier" caps. Is there any evidence that corks do a better job keeping oxygen from entering the bottles than these do?
In either case, the potential oxidation from oxygen already in the headspace would be the same with either corks or crown caps.
Golddiggie
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I bottled some mead in 2011 and the final bottle(s) were opened last year. No oxidization was evident (either via taste or color). This was an 18% ABV traditional (not carbonated) mead that was in a corked bottle. I used the bottling bucket (might have been the last time I did) to fill these bottles.
@Falstaff around the corker. I originally had one of the red models that was fine for wine corks but nothing larger. I managed to cork some Belgium bottles with it, but it was a struggle. I since sold that corker and bought a champagne corker (will handle everything). I would advise looking at what you THINK you'll want to use for corks and bottles and buy accordingly (the first time). Or, just get the champagne model and not need to worry about it in the future.
When I actually use bottles sealed with corks I set up the area to make the process easier. I fill one bottle, then cork it right then. Usually pivoting between filling station and where the corker (along with corks in Starsan) is positioned. I could be setting up to do this in the next couple/few weeks for the batches that have been bulk aging for several years. They were last checked 11 months ago and most had oak cubes added to them.
@Falstaff around the corker. I originally had one of the red models that was fine for wine corks but nothing larger. I managed to cork some Belgium bottles with it, but it was a struggle. I since sold that corker and bought a champagne corker (will handle everything). I would advise looking at what you THINK you'll want to use for corks and bottles and buy accordingly (the first time). Or, just get the champagne model and not need to worry about it in the future.
When I actually use bottles sealed with corks I set up the area to make the process easier. I fill one bottle, then cork it right then. Usually pivoting between filling station and where the corker (along with corks in Starsan) is positioned. I could be setting up to do this in the next couple/few weeks for the batches that have been bulk aging for several years. They were last checked 11 months ago and most had oak cubes added to them.
They are sold as oxygen scavenging caps, that implies that they actively remove it from the air. Also, it is said that they are being activated via water, so they shouldn't get used up by air contact only. At least that is the theory, practicaly, I have not seen proove that they work, quite the opposite actually.
"
Description
These oxygen scavengers have a special liner that absorbs oxygen molecules in the head space of closed bottles. This layer protects your beer from oxidation, it ensures flavour stability and extends shelf life.
Specifications:
- 26 mm crown cap
- the caps are moisture activated, therefore, only wet/sanitize the crown corks prior to bottling.
- quantity: 1,000 pieces
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@Miraculix Interesting. It would be helpful if someone with the right equipment could test some bottles with these vs. regular caps and actually measure the amount of dissolved oxygen after a few months.
If there are three neipas, one with very little headspace and normal caps, and two with normal headspace from which one hayd an oxygen scavenging cap and the other has a normal cap, and only the small headspace bottle doesn't turn brown, then that's enough for me to see.
Toxxyc
New and loving it
I have to admit, I use potassium metabisulfite. It's super cheap, a little goes a long way and it works. I've been bottling from the clearing bucket for years and even years later the meads are all still fine.
PS: Use an online calculator to calculate the doses to use, as you want a certain level of free sulfites in solution when it comes to bottling. k-meta is "used up" in the mead as time goes on and it's introduced to oxygen and so on.
PS: Use an online calculator to calculate the doses to use, as you want a certain level of free sulfites in solution when it comes to bottling. k-meta is "used up" in the mead as time goes on and it's introduced to oxygen and so on.
@Miraculix I don't make beer, but if someone did the experiment that you suggest and the two bottles with normal headspace both turned brown, then it seem that the "oxygen thief" caps don't work. At least that's what I think you mean in your comment above.
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Won't the yeast use some of the oxygen if you carb it though? Still want it still but I'm almost on the fence.
Some but not all of it. First it has to diffuse from the headspace into the liquid for the yeast to be able to reach it. And this takes e way more time than the yeast needs to finish the remaining sugar.
I'm a little late to the party, but I just bottled a bochet this aftrenoon, and here's my technique:
It was a 1 gallon batch which I started back on 8/31. I racked it twice to help clarify it , adding 1 camden tab each time. Yield was 4 wine bottles plus 1,12 oz. beer bottle. Used a siphon and racking cane. The bottles went through my dishwasher sanitizer cycle, and when they came out I soaked them in a water bath with Camden 1 tab per gallon. After siphoning the bochet into the bottles, I give the headspace a spray of 'winesaver' gas, then cork the wine bottles and crimped a O2 scavenging cap on the beer bottle. I also wax the tops of the wine bottles. Why? Probably more for show. This technique has never (so far anyways) let me down.
It was a 1 gallon batch which I started back on 8/31. I racked it twice to help clarify it , adding 1 camden tab each time. Yield was 4 wine bottles plus 1,12 oz. beer bottle. Used a siphon and racking cane. The bottles went through my dishwasher sanitizer cycle, and when they came out I soaked them in a water bath with Camden 1 tab per gallon. After siphoning the bochet into the bottles, I give the headspace a spray of 'winesaver' gas, then cork the wine bottles and crimped a O2 scavenging cap on the beer bottle. I also wax the tops of the wine bottles. Why? Probably more for show. This technique has never (so far anyways) let me down.
Steveruch
Well-Known Member
Not that long ago I had the last bottle of a batch of 18 year old cherry mead that was bottled in sparkling cider bottles with crown caps. Maybe I just lucked out, but it was really good.
About the same time I finished a batch of 16 year old raspberry mead done the same way. It was also excellent.
About the same time I finished a batch of 16 year old raspberry mead done the same way. It was also excellent.
Good to know! I am capping all my meads atm in smaller bottles and I intend to keep them for some years that way.
Steveruch
Well-Known Member
Both these meads were 18%.
If you're carbonating it, your probably not degassing before bottling (because why would you?) If you let it foam-up to the mouth of the bottle before you apply the cap, the headspace will contain mostly CO2, not air. I do that with my beers. Some of my bottle caps say they are oxygen barrier and others say oxygen scavenging, but I assume they are all just barrier caps.
Cider doesn't foam up like beer when I fill the bottles, but it still releases CO2 from solution during filling. The headspace should be a mix of air and CO2; perhaps not much air but I don't know. I've opened bottles of cider that were over a year old and they tasted fresh. (but with no hops and nothing to turn brown, a little oxidation might not be noticeable.
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