Step by step of my brewday: Doing a massive hop stand

[kal]

I recently did a similar experiment, except I didn't add any mash hops. I did a split batch, half of which (2.5 gallons) received 3 oz of hops held at 200F for 30 minutes, and half of which received 3 oz of hops held at 175 for 30 minutes. The 200 beer was plenty bitter, maybe 40 IBUs. The 175 beer was markedly less bitter, but certainly not cloyingly sweet—maybe 25 IBUs. The 175 beer had more hop aroma.

Thanks for the info! Your hopping amount of 14.4 oz per 12 gallons is similar to mine (16 oz per 12 gallons). Just different temps and time.

To be clear, I didn't add any mash hops either.

Both fermenters are still actively fermenting... I'll likely give them 2 weeks to finish up fermenting and allow the yeast a chance to clean up after itself and then rack and dry hop.

Kal

 

[wobdee]

I recently did a similar experiment, except I didn't add any mash hops. I did a split batch, half of which (2.5 gallons) received 3 oz of hops held at 200F for 30 minutes, and half of which received 3 oz of hops held at 175 for 30 minutes. The 200 beer was plenty bitter, maybe 40 IBUs. The 175 beer was markedly less bitter, but certainly not cloyingly sweet—maybe 25 IBUs. The 175 beer had more hop aroma.

What kind of beer was it? I want to try this in an average strength pale ale but don't know how much hops to use.

 

[Gavagai]

It was a 1.053 pale ale. Based on my results, I think that a 30 minute hopstand at 200 is about equivalent in IBUs to a 5 minute addition (Tinseth), while a 30 minute hopstand at 175 is about equivalent to a 3 minute addition.

 

[wobdee]

It was a 1.053 pale ale. Based on my results, I think that a 30 minute hopstand at 200 is about equivalent in IBUs to a 5 minute addition (Tinseth), while a 30 minute hopstand at 175 is about equivalent to a 3 minute addition.

Thanks, that's great info and I'll try out your calculations in my next batch.

 

[kal]

UPDATE:

I tried a taste of this beer last night when I took a gravity reading (it's been 9 days since I pitched and it's down to 1.012, I figure it'll end up around 1.010 which is where I was hoping it would end up).

Normally I don't take readings until a good two weeks or so (depends on the beer/fermentation temp/etc.) have passed and I know it's done fermenting and cleaning up, but this one was a special case since I only added hops only after the boil (16 oz).

I was worried that it would be overly hoppy but it's actually the opposite: If I was to get it analyzed, the measured IBUs is likely in the 30-40 range at the most. It's really hard to tell. There's bitterness but it's extremely smooth with a ton of hop flavour and aroma. The best way to describe it is it tastes the way a handful of hops smells when you hold them up to your face. Not astringent or bitter, just tons of flavour.

It'll be interesting to see how it behaves over time, if it fades at all. The competition this will be entered in is in exactly 6 weeks. By the time I dry hop and keg, it should have a good 4 weeks in the keg carbonating and conditioning. It should be in its prime.

Fingers crossed!

Kal

 

[Gavagai]

Sounds like your results are in the same ballpark as mine, although it's hard to a make direct comparison because of the temperature curve on your first hop addition. I found the aromatics to be extremely floral, but I used a bunch of Amarillo.

 

[tinytowers]

I tried the hop stand method on my last batch and I ended up with an extremely hazy/cloudy beer. I dropped my IC in after flameout for a bit too long and dropped it down to 150 before starting the hop stand. I let the hops steep for 30 minutes and then cooled to 65. I'm thinking the fact that I dropped it below the target 170-180 caused the lack of cold break. Anyone else have any problems with lack of cold break using hop stands? If so, what temps should I be at to avoid this?

 

[kal]

DAY 12:

Gravity has dropped to 1.010 - 1.011 (@68F). Beer was racked to 5 gallon glass carboys and 2 oz of dry hops added.
The hop flavours/aromas have not subsided as far as I can tell. Hopefully it'll stay that way.
At nearly 6 % ABV this beer teeters on the edge between an American Pale Ale and an American IPA, so it can take the extra hop flavours/aromas.

Kal

 

[MNDan]

Any concerns that the hops aren't submerged? Or will they eventually fall to the bottom? Looks great & I can't wait to hear more about the results!

 

[kal]

Any concerns that the hops aren't submerged? Or will they eventually fall to the bottom? Looks great & I can't wait to hear more about the results!

They are wet and they do tend to drop after a few days. That said, I also swirl them from time to time but they do eventually fall.

This is no different from any other dry hopping - it's not specific to this experiment.

Kal

 

[AnOldUR]

Looking forward to hearing your final results.

 

[DustBow]

Kal - kegged up yet? Any more samples?
Did my first hop stand yesterday and can't wait to see how it tastes in a couple weeks

 

[kal]

Good timing! I kegged it a few days ago and forgot to post about it... mostly because there isn't much to say or show.

The two kegs are now sitting in my conditioning fridge at 32F with the CO2 gas attached so they they'll carb up to about 5 PSI:

Not much to see. It's kegs in a fridge.

I did taste it after 24-36 hours and now that it's cold (but not 100% carbed) it still has a ton of hop flavour, not much aroma from what I can tell and isn't overly bitter.

To use what is probably an overused marketing phrase: It tastes like liquid hops. To use a term from wine: The hop flavour seems to have excellent 'length' (the amount of time the flavour stays with you after you swallow it).

It reminds me a lot of sorts of American IPAs I like to make (lot of late hop additions) but without the up front bitterness that is usually included as well. So far it's definitely the most flavourful APA I've had.

It'll be interesting to see how it fares in 2-4 weeks once it is fully carb'ed up and cleared. It's going into a local tasting that a bunch of brewers are doing in early May so I'll make sure to collect comments and post back.

Kal

 

[DustBow]

Sounds good. I think we're starting to tap into some of the big brewers' "secrets" when it comes to hop bursting flavors....although with them it's just more about logisitics and volume I think - they simply can't chill their batches as fast as we can, thus "whirlpool hops" was born

 

[gandelf]

Have you tasted it yet? The last three batches of APA/IPA I have done the same way, with the exception I BIAB. For me, the 170F 80 minute hop stand provides the best taste and level of hop flavor and aroma. Again for me, fermentation does strip a significant amount ~50 - 70 percent of the aroma and ~ 25 percent flavor. So, I torpedo (march pump/whole house filter) 3 to 6 ounces of leaf hops at 65 degrees for 2 days. Torpedoing also brightens up my hoppy ales significantly.

It works for me; I have been torpedoing for aprox. 9 months and ALL of my hoppy beers get it and a few non-hoppy beers also. By the way, very nice documentation and pics.

 

[kal]

Have you tasted it yet?

Yes. See my comments in my last post (3 posts above).

Kal

 

[KozHops]

Great thread and pics - amazing setup. Subscribed.

 

[gandelf]

Yes. See my comments in my last post (3 posts above).

Kal

I mean, have you tasted it after it has completely carbed and settled?

 

[kal]

It has not completeley carbed and settled yet. In 2-4 weeks will be best.

Kal

 

[gandelf]

It has not completeley carbed and settled yet. In 2-4 weeks will be best.

Kal

I will be looking forward to your evaluation.

I would like to add, I have been doing some FWH and whirlpooling with good results. For me, the FWH provides a
different flavor profile that appeals to my taste buds. I should mention, since I no longer add hops during the boil;
I have been doing 20 minute boils for months now with no DMS.

On a side note: I have personally heard Jamil (JZ) talk about doing ALL whirlpool hopping on some ales since he has
been pro brewing. His motivation was to add as much hops in the whirlpool to derive the desired bitterness while
getting maximum flavor and aroma. This is what motivated me to give this a go.

 

[davekippen]

What a great write up. Oh, and regarding your setup and bar - freaking awesome.

 

[GRBC]

Have you tasted it yet? The last three batches of APA/IPA I have done the same way, with the exception I BIAB. For me, the 170F 80 minute hop stand provides the best taste and level of hop flavor and aroma. Again for me, fermentation does strip a significant amount ~50 - 70 percent of the aroma and ~ 25 percent flavor. So, I torpedo (march pump/whole house filter) 3 to 6 ounces of leaf hops at 65 degrees for 2 days. Torpedoing also brightens up my hoppy ales significantly.

It works for me; I have been torpedoing for aprox. 9 months and ALL of my hoppy beers get it and a few non-hoppy beers also. By the way, very nice documentation and pics.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on your torpedo process? Do you recirculate your fermenting/fermented beer to/from the fermentation vessel through your whole house filter packed with leaf hops continuously for 2 days?

 

[gandelf]

Would you mind elaborating a bit on your torpedo process? Do you recirculate your fermenting/fermented beer to/from the fermentation vessel through your whole house filter packed with leaf hops continuously for 2 days?

My torpedo process is on here somewhere? I basically keg the beer, use another empty keg to push sanitizer through, put the hops in a sack and then use the keg to purge with co2.

If yo haven't tasted Sierra Nevada's Torpedo Ale, give it a go; the hop flavor and aroma is from torpedoing. The process and a pic is in Mitch Steel's hop book.

Since I BIAB, I no longer use my second March pump. I put some hose and corny keg quick connectors on it and us it to recirculate PBW and then Star San to clean my kegs. So, it was simple to just attach a keg post and quick connector to the filter housing. It takes ~10 minutes to hookup the torpedo. When the torpedoing is finished, I use the spare keg to push the beer back into the filled keg with co2; minus a sample. Hope that helps?

 

[khugs21]

dude, this sounds like a sick beer! I just recently brewed a IPA with only hops added during the hopstand and my hop back. A mix of simcoe, cascade, and amarillo but only amounted to about 7oz not including the dry hop. So far it taste amazing and im going to try this with a whole mess of other hop combos. Good luck with the brew and your system looks awesome.

 

[kal]

My torpedo process is on here somewhere? I basically keg the beer, use another empty keg to push sanitizer through, put the hops in a sack and then use the keg to purge with co2.

How long do you recirculate for?
Do you find it produces a different taste than just dry hopping longer?

The main reasons for using a torpedo as told by Steve Dresler (brewmaster at SN) is to more effectively and efficiently extract the volatile hop oils. Prior to this using giant hop bags resulted in poor saturation and therefore slower extraction of hop oils. Longer contact time was needed with more hops.

So from what I understand, it's just to speed up the process but I'm curious what you think. In a commercial brewery where they're always looking to clear tanks for the next batch.

Kal

 

[gandelf]

How long do you recirculate for?

Do you find it produces a different taste than just dry hopping longer?

The main reasons for using a torpedo as told by Steve Dresler (brewmaster at SN) is to more effectively and efficiently extract the volatile hop oils. Prior to this using giant hop bags resulted in poor saturation and therefore slower extraction of hop oils. Longer contact time was needed with more hops.

So from what I understand, it's just to speed up the process but I'm curious what you think. In a commercial brewery where they're always looking to clear tanks for the next batch.

Kal

Basement temp (~65 F) for 2 days.

For me, it's not a different flavor or aroma, it's much much more of both. I have tried all of the other hop process and torpedoing provides the most flavor and aroma for me. Now I FWH and torpedo all of my hoppy beers.

Depending on the recirculation rate; torpedoing will decrease contact time significant. I believe this is accomplished by increasing ALL of the wort's contact time each pass through the hops. An added benefit is the "filtering" the whole hops do; my hoppy beers have never been as bright.

 

[kal]

Interesting. I may have to try this out myself as it's pretty straight forward and I probably have everything I need already.

Kal

 

[branCHEs]

I saw this the day before I brewed. I wanted to brew an APA.

I started my mash and I thought everything was good until I realized that my mash was 15 degrees hotter then it should have been: 170 instead of 154. I realized one of my thermometers was off by 15 degrees.

I said to hell with it, lets call this one an experiment... Instead of doing the usual 60 min addition then late boil additions, I decided to just add all the hops at 5 minutes. I know it's not exactly the same as a hop stand but it was this tread that inspired me, haha. I also let the hops sit in the wort for 5 minutes before I cooled it down, but it was off the flame.

Ill post back with results oh how it tasted once its finished.

I ended up with a OG of 1.047 - so I came in a little low. Here is the recipe

 

[AnOldUR]

Kal. Just saw this thread on IBU testing.
Would be the perfect beer to test this service.





see how good I spend other peoples money . . . :cross:

 

[MagicSmoker]

Kal. Just saw this thread on IBU testing.
Would be the perfect beer to test this service...

+1 on this. Take advantage of the service now before the guy realizes $5 per IBU test just isn't worth the bother!!!