Steeping wheat?

[Gnarlybarley]

Does steeping wheat do anything?

I am an extract brewer and I recently bought a wheat kit from my LHBS. The grain bill was:
6.6 lbs wheat LME
1 lb pale malt, crushed
.5 lb carapils dextrin malt, crushed
.5 lb wheat malt, crushed

The instructions call for the crushed grains to be steeped; however, I was under the impression that wheat needs to be mashed. Is this another example of a LHBS giving horrible directions? Or is there a benefit that steeped wheat will give to the beer?

Thanks

 

[Calder]

Wheat needs to be mashed to convert the starches to sugars. Apart from the starches which will make a cloudy beer, I'm not sure what you will get from steeping wheat.

 

[Captain Damage]

"Steeping" with 1lb of pale, as the recipe shows, essentially IS mashing. Keep your temperature below 158F and hold it for 30 minutes. Rather tham the stretchy muslin "gym sock" sterping bag that most kits come with, use a nylon paint straining bag (5gal) from the hardware store or home center. It'll hold the grains more loosely giving you better extraction when steeping and better starch conversion when mashing.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

And is steeping base grains for only 30 mins still mashing? AFAIK if you steep speciality grains for >30mins you will extract tannins so I was wondering if you wanted to steep/mash base grains and say the likes of flaked wheat etc for qualities such as flavour and head retention rather than fermentable conversion, would a 30 min steep do the trick?

Or should i just have a seperate pot and mash the base grains in that for an hour and steep my speciality grains in a seperate pot for 30 mins?

Once then they are all done I can lob them into my boil pot for the 60 min boil.

Essentially, a (partial) mash is a 1 hour steep with base grains at a different temp is it? Or have I missed something?

 

[IrregularPulse]

The pale malt will help convert the wheat. The general rule is to Mash for 60 minutes, but with today's Malts, some people who actually check with an iodine or similar test, see that 20-40 minutes is plenty of time for conversion. I'd stick with the directions and use a "steep" (mash) temp of ~155

This post is assuming all those grains are crushed.

 

[sweetcell]

AFAIK if you steep speciality grains for >30mins you will extract tannins

i've never heard of this. heating grains - any grains - above 170*F will extract tannins. keep it below 170 and you'll be fine. i've never heard of length of time as being a tannin-causing factor.

Or should i just have a seperate pot and mash the base grains in that for an hour and steep my speciality grains in a seperate pot for 30 mins?

no, specialty grains should be throw into the mash along with the base grains. there is no reason to prep them separately.

Essentially, a (partial) mash is a 1 hour steep with base grains at a different temp is it? Or have I missed something?

a partial mash is the same as a regular mash, except that you aren't getting all your fermantables from the grains - you'll be adding some extract during the boil. this makes you less dependent on perfectly hitting your numbers. in essence, the extract give you a margin of error or fudge factor.

but the process is the same: steep grains in water for at least an hour at a temp between 148 and 158 (might need to go longer if you're at the lower end of the range, then again others claim that an hour is over-kill...) 148 will yield a drier beer, 158 will result in more unfermentables thus a sweeter/heavier body beer. the base grains and specialty grains (like crystal) are mashed together.

good tutorial here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

Cheers for the replies folks. Can't remember where I saw time being a factor but i remember an analogy being drawn between steeping grains and black tea (where time steeping definitely is a factor).

I'm probably getting ahead of myself here anyway, only done 4 brews and the last one was my first extract and grains so a lot of my questions are just academic for now but i like to read as much as possible as I pick up hints and tidbits from all sections and forums

Edit: Actually, now I see it I read that link ages ago and completely forgot about it, I think I was reading it looking for info on the speciality grains bit

 

[Calder]

"Steeping" with 1lb of pale, as the recipe shows, essentially IS mashing. Keep your temperature below 158F and hold it for 30 minutes. Rather tham the stretchy muslin "gym sock" sterping bag that most kits come with, use a nylon paint straining bag (5gal) from the hardware store or home center. It'll hold the grains more loosely giving you better extraction when steeping and better starch conversion when mashing.

Steeping and mashing, while similar, are not he same. Steeping is getting a large volume of water, throwing the grains in and essentially rinsing the sugars and flavors from the grains. To mash, you need to have a relatively small amount of water. When you mash with a base malt, it provides enzymes, It only provides a certain amount of enzymes, and the more water you have the more diluted tit is, and the longer it takes for the enzymes to find and convert the starches to sugar. As a general rule, use between 1 and 1.5 quarts of water for every lb of grain.

And is steeping base grains for only 30 mins still mashing? AFAIK if you steep speciality grains for >30mins you will extract tannins

No you will not extract tannins. Tannin extraction is dependent on both high temperature and ph. You could probably boil the grains in the wort and not extract tannins. Don't worry about them.