Steam lid that vents directly outside?

[bf514921]

So i am siting here this evening enjoying a beer just pondering my setup and realized that my quest for a quieter steam extraction method may be nearing an end.......maybe.

For my setup I have a 6 inch pipe that goes outside(had the HVAC guys put it in when the house was built). I use a 400ish cfm jet engine, er fan to exhaust steam outside, and it works fine, its just loud, really loud. I have tried sound deadening , couple different fans to no avail. I like the concept of the steam condensation lids, but wondered about how the commercial breweries do it, do they just vent directly outside?

1. Could i vent the steam directly outside if i used a steam condenser lid? Instead of cooling it with water, just let it go outside?(note i already have a method that closes it when not in use, very useful during the winter so no cold air comes in.)

2. I looked at a couple of brands of steam condenser lid, I have a spike boil kettle(15 gallon tank), but it looks as though top outlet is only 1.5 inches, on the spike condenser lid. i looked at a brew tools steam lid and it has a larger diameter outlet on the top that might work better. Does the brew tools fits on a spike kettle?

3. Could i just hook an exhaust fan directly to it?

Have others tried this? if you have could you post some pics and your thoughts,

any help is appreciated, i added a couple of pics for reference, cheers

 

[Skeeter686]

I have the Spike steam condensing lid and it works well, despite the 1.5" opening, so I don't believe you'd need a larger opening than that.

The way the stream condensing works is by a cool water spray causing steam to condense in a pipe, which creates a partial vacuum that sucks more steam in. If you have a fan that's creating the partial vacuum instead of the condensing steam, then it sounds like it should work in a similar fashion. Please note that I have not tried this and I'm only guessing here.

 

[bf514921]

I appreciate the response, would love more responses, I am intrigued by the lid creating a "vaccuum" it indicates that the thought I have is plausible

 

[ClaudiusB]

I have a very effective but simple setup: a 10-foot-long 2" steam exhaust pipe with a condensate trap.

 

[bf514921]

that looks very interesting, i had not thought of needing a condensation trap, my run would be really short. it would be up then right out the side of the house.

 

[Bobby_M]

Condensation is inevitable at relatively low air/steam velocity because the internal surfaces the steam touches will be cold enough. I mean I guess you could put a heater on it and insulation over that, but it's a bit much.

 

[Deadalus]

Do continue investigating a steam condensing option if you want no noise.

It does look like your left picture might be a Cloudline, but perhaps a knockoff. The Cloudline is fairly quiet at 32 dB. The Vortex is definitely louder. I have my 6" Cloudline in the horizontal run instead of vertical and the sound rating I feel is accurate. If you were able to get it placed in between the joists you could also muffle it further with covering the ceiling beneath it. Depends on wall proximity. There's also a muffler for it. Having your fan vertical like that IMO allows condensation to drip into it.

 

[bf514921]

Condensation is inevitable at relatively low air/steam velocity because the internal surfaces the steam touches will be cold enough. I mean I guess you could put a heater on it and insulation over that, but it's a bit much.

Yeah I was a little worried about that it is insullated until it exits thehouse

 

[bf514921]

Do continue investigating a steam condensing option if you want no noise.

It does look like your left picture might be a Cloudline, but perhaps a knockoff. The Cloudline is fairly quiet at 32 dB. The Vortex is definitely louder. I have my 6" Cloudline in the horizontal run instead of vertical and the sound rating I feel is accurate. If you were able to get it placed in between the joists you could also muffle it further with covering the ceiling beneath it. Depends on wall proximity. There's also a muffler for it. Having your fan vertical like that IMO allows condensation to drip into it.

Yes it's this one https://a.co/d/7BDcq4G, it is a cloudline rated at 32db,, it might be my setup, with just the air movement noise

 

[jdauria]

I have a cheapo steam extractor...I use a window dryer vent, and run flexible ducting from the vent to the kettle with an inline duct fan. Since I am using an Anvil Foundry on 120V, I partially cover the lid for a better boil and the duct hangs right over the open side of the kettle. It removes 80-90% of the steam from the house and most of the smell that my wife hates!

 

[bike2brew]

I have the Spike steam condensing lid and it works well, despite the 1.5" opening, so I don't believe you'd need a larger opening than that.

The way the stream condensing works is by a cool water spray causing steam to condense in a pipe, which creates a partial vacuum that sucks more steam in. If you have a fan that's creating the partial vacuum instead of the condensing steam, then it sounds like it should work in a similar fashion. Please note that I have not tried this and I'm only guessing here.

My Spike lid works well as applied on the Ss BrewTech SVBS. A major addition to my hot side process that keeps my ceiling tiles from growing mold. I will note there is a vacuum produced and noted when I periodically remove the sight glass for my hop additions.

 

[DuncB]

Big " fan " of the steam condenser lid.
There is a very long thread on this forum about condensers.

I'd love to see the evidence that the spray Venturi does actually lower the pressure in the kettle.

Given the amount of gas " steam " made during a boil to lower the pressure you'd need a lot of suck.

 

[Bobby_M]

Big " fan " of the steam condenser lid.
There is a very long thread on this forum about condensers.

I'd love to see the evidence that the spray Venturi does actually lower the pressure in the kettle.

Given the amount of gas " steam " made during a boil to lower the pressure you'd need a lot of suck.

I wouldn't use the word "venturi" because that's not what drives the steam condenser function.

It's more about pressure differential. The boil is creating pressure slightly above ambient and the condensing action is creating a vacuum slightly below ambient pressures.

It's pretty easy to observe. Start a low boil, put the lid on without the cold water supply to the condenser turned on. Steam billows out all around the lid which shows there's positive pressure inside the kettle. When you turn the sprayer on, no steam escapes from the lid/kettle junction even if the lid doesn't fit tight.


If you think of the spraying chamber as a closed system for a second... if it was closed off or completely sealed and full of steam and you cool it off, the canister would implode due to lowered pressure. Of course, it's not sealed. It has a big opening on the kettle side and a much smaller opening on the drain end. When that pressure lowers, it draws steam out of the kettle.

 

[Broken Crow]

Big " fan " of the steam condenser lid.
There is a very long thread on this forum about condensers.

I'd love to see the evidence that the spray Venturi does actually lower the pressure in the kettle.

Given the amount of gas " steam " made during a boil to lower the pressure you'd need a lot of suck.

There's 2 different types of evidence... The first, the empirical, is with your own eyes. Yeah, the kettle makes a lot of steam and yeah; science/expanding gasses, vapours etc..BUT: thermal dynamics; when you expose that mass of steam to a below boiling point stream of water, unless you overcome the temperature differential/mass it really does, provided you used an appropriate sized sprayer, have greater condensing capacity in an inch and a quarter than the approximately 18" surface area producing steam can provide. It really does suck the lid down because it really does create a vaccum just like a fire will suck in air.
The second kind of evidence is in the math, but my brain no longer works with quantities so maybe if dougcz is bored, I'm sure he can provide it.

 

[bf514921]

very cool. the condenser is an option, but i am looking more for a way to vent the steam out with a smaller or no fan, i am fortunate enough i already have a 6 inch vent for the brewery that goes right outside the wall. for whatever reason(could be the hood vibrating maybey) i turn on the fan and its very loud, and was looking for ways to reduce that, the condenser is an option. what i was hoping to do was direct vent out my existing vent, but i dont know if the if will create a pressure difference to keep the steam moving out.

 

[bf514921]

this is the current version. the first picture is how the fan is connected, the second picture the setup is the same but i have some cheap sound deading foam around it. I will try and get an actual db reading this weekend so instead of conjecture of "loud" i can put an actual number to it

 

[Bobby_M]

Move the fan outside?

 

[bf514921]

I did briefly look into that, I was running into the smallest I could find was 8 inch, I was looking at the restaurant style to mount outside. All this discussion is great, and appreciated.