Steam collection question

[GreenEnvy22]

Hi all,
I currently brew in my greenhouse, as I have 240v power there, and it's right beside my pool, which I use for cooling water in my counterflow chiller after boil. As an added bonus, that's essentially "free" heat for the pool when brewing.

This works great, but I'm in a cold area, and the greenhouse has plants overwintering so I can't open up the windows while brewing when it's below freezing (greenhouse is heated, keeps itself a few degrees above freezing). It gets very steamy in the greenhouse when boiling, so I'd like to prevent that.
An exhaust fan is one option, but not a great one (will block light, probably won't get enough of the steam, and it's sucking that nice warm air out of the greenhouse, which pulls cold air in)

I do have a condenser that can hook onto the lid of my kettle, via a 2" triclamp, that I use for, other hobbies... So I could use that, but I was thinking of just using that 2" triclamp to have a 2" pipe that just goes out the side of the greenhouse. I'm thinking it would go up a maybe like 6-12 inches, then across about 18-24 inches to the wall, and out.

In my head this should work fine, but anyone have any experience on why this might not work so well? I'm mostly concerned about perhaps the negative compounds not boiling off properly, or falling back in. The biggest downside to using the condenser or this setup, it difficulty in accessing for hops additions. I guess I could add another triclamp port to the lid of my kettle, there is plenty of room, and have a hop basket suspended from that.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[hotbeer]

Seems like getting some of that large diameter flexible duct and attaching it to the back of something like a box fan. With the other end going out any nearby door or window would be easier. The duct would need to be about the diameter of the fan blades. The smaller the duct you use, likely the better and more powerful your fan will need to be.

If you use a finned condenser, then that's going to need coolant of some sort along with a fan for airflow. As well you'll have to have something to collect all the water that drips off. You definitely don't want it dripping back into your beer, as the steam is carrying off some of the stuff you don't want remaining in your beer. DMS being one of them, IIRC. Or were you talking about some other type of condenser than a finned or radiator type condenser?

I'd think the steam will be good for the plants in the greenhouse as that brings up the humidity. But I suppose you can have too much with water all over the frame of the greenhouse itself making it deteriorate.

 

[sibelman]

Taking steam out will pull (cold) air in.

 

[Broken Crow]

I'm trying to imagine another hobby use for a steam condenser...Are you talking about the popular type like this;
Steam Slayer 1.5'' TC Kettle Boil Steam Condenser Assembly ?
Those things work great, and for hop additions I just lift the lid... If your lid is affixed and you don't want to lift it, just wear a pair of cotton-knit workgloves under a pair of rubbermaid kitchen gloves and undo the TC and pop them in there.... with that glove combo I can even stick my hand in boiling wort for almost a minute. Part of the great convenience of TC's is the ability to reconfigure them on-the-fly. I had myself, tried to pipe a TC fitting to a duct and fan for venting, but I could still detect 'some' (though significantly less) DMS in the beer, so I commited to the leaving it open until I built the steam-condensor which I now swear by.

 

[hotbeer]

Taking steam out will pull (cold) air in.

True, but depending on the volume of the space and how it might be heated, it may not be a big issue. When we turn on the exhaust fans in our bathrooms and kitchens, then those are pulling in unconditioned air through various places where the structure isn't air tight.

And there are heat exchangers that can be put in duct work so that the impact on the internal ambient temps are very nil. But those heat exchangers which work much like a finned radiator will take more thinking and effort to use. Plus they weren't inexpensive the last time I looked at them.

 

[GreenEnvy22]

Seems like getting some of that large diameter flexible duct and attaching it to the back of something like a box fan. With the other end going out any nearby door or window would be easier. The duct would need to be about the diameter of the fan blades. The smaller the duct you use, likely the better and more powerful your fan will need to be.

If you use a finned condenser, then that's going to need coolant of some sort along with a fan for airflow. As well you'll have to have something to collect all the water that drips off. You definitely don't want it dripping back into your beer, as the steam is carrying off some of the stuff you don't want remaining in your beer. DMS being one of them, IIRC. Or were you talking about some other type of condenser than a finned or radiator type condenser?

I'd think the steam will be good for the plants in the greenhouse as that brings up the humidity. But I suppose you can have too much with water all over the frame of the greenhouse itself making it deteriorate.

My concern with most ducting is that invariably some steam is going to condense on the walls of it, and could drip back in. So It needs to be food grade.

For the condenser, it's got an inner copper pipe, jacketed in another copper pipe, with cooling water running between. As mentioned above, the pool supplies tons of cool water. The drips coming out would just go out a hose to the outside, or drip onto the ground, the greenhouse is built on a concrete slab and does drain away from the house.

Taking steam out will pull (cold) air in.

If I use a fan to pull air out sure. But a 2" pipe attached to the triclamp on the lid of the kettle, going outside, is not going to remove any air from the greenhouse. The steam will push itself out the pipe to the outside.

I'm trying to imagine another hobby use for a steam condenser...Are you talking about the popular type like this;
Steam Slayer 1.5'' TC Kettle Boil Steam Condenser Assembly ?
Those things work great, and for hop additions I just lift the lid... If your lid is affixed and you don't want to lift it, just wear a pair of cotton-knit workgloves under a pair of rubbermaid kitchen gloves and undo the TC and pop them in there.... with that glove combo I can even stick my hand in boiling wort for almost a minute. Part of the great convenience of TC's is the ability to reconfigure them on-the-fly. I had myself, tried to pipe a TC fitting to a duct and fan for venting, but I could still detect 'some' (though significantly less) DMS in the beer, so I commited to the leaving it open until I built the steam-condensor which I now swear by.

Maybe a hobby that uses almost all the same equipment, most of the same ingredients, and make a similar, but stronger, product at the end?
Yes I can just lift the lid off. It's a bit heavy with the condenser and it's cooling hoses attached, but I do have a pully above the kettle which would work.

 

[hotbeer]

If I use a fan to pull air out sure. But a 2" pipe attached to the triclamp on the lid of the kettle, going outside, is not going to remove any air from the greenhouse. The steam will push itself out the pipe to the outside.

I don't know what the math is to calculate the amount of steam the boil kettle will generate. If you are piping the steam through the condenser coil instead of the other way around as I imagined, then you need to be sure that the steam won't generate any pressure as that might keep or change the amount of undesirable stuff that stays in the wort instead of being removed with the steam. And of course some of that is going to condense on the inside of the lid and everywhere else prior to the coil. Any that drips back in the wort may leave the beer with a bad taste.

Commercial brewer's have a lot of thought put into the design of the kettle they use to boil that gets that steam away from the wort without a lot of condensate dripping back in. You'll have to use the same careful thought.

That stuff dripping back in is part of the reason as home brewer's we typically don't put a lid on the kettle.

 

[GreenEnvy22]

My condenser is a liebig, if I use that, it would have to go up about 2ft, then make a 120 degree angle, and reduce down to 1". So I'm pretty sure I'd have some steam recondensing on the way up, and dripping back down.
And yea thats why I've never used my condenser for brewing, or had the lid on during boil.

Maybe the exhaust fan is just the simplest. It will still reduce the steam a lot. The cooler air getting sucked in probably isn't going to be more then the heat coming off the kettle and steam anyway.

Thanks everyone.

 

[hottpeper13]

If you could make the pipe run from the lid tc at a downward angle and drill a hole in the very bottom of the leg then pipe up to the exit. This would allow the steam to condense and drain away. Insulate the entire run well. With the lid on you will have to cut the power so you will need to recalculate boil off, my friends is 4% with the steam slayer.

 

[Broken Crow]

My condenser is a liebig, if I use that, it would have to go up about 2ft, then make a 120 degree angle, and reduce down to 1". So I'm pretty sure I'd have some steam recondensing on the way up, and dripping back down.
And yea thats why I've never used my condenser for brewing, or had the lid on during boil.

Maybe the exhaust fan is just the simplest. It will still reduce the steam a lot. The cooler air getting sucked in probably isn't going to be more then the heat coming off the kettle and steam anyway.

Thanks everyone.

Not really the most efficient style of condenser for homebrew. In large commercial settings that utilize liebigs-types, they typically have anywhere from 10-50 cores carrying coolant at significanly lower temps than a pool gets down to. It's just a heat-exchanger, whereas the ones a lot of us build or buy with the actual cold-water as the surface-contact area has a more efficient dynamic. (which I apologize for no longer being able to explain..I've got brain-damage.)
Have you read through this thread: Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed ? These ones really are highly efficent. can hang alongside the kettle (even when attached to the lid) and can get better heat-exchange efficiency, and have easy methods available to eliminate backwash.