Starter Schedule

[GroovePuppy]

Every post I make asking a question seems to be only subtly different from a million others posted in the same week. However I'm clinging to the "subtly different" as justification yet again.

Made my first starter ever last night using the Wyeast #1098 I harvested a week and a half ago using a pint of water and half a cup of DME and it took off great ('cept for the concentrated yeast farts!). I planned to refrigerate it Thurs to flocculate the yeast for pitching to a Hob Goblin on Saturday.

John Palmers example in the book suggests he adds another pint of DME wort. Is this necessary or is the pint likely to be enough. I estimate that I pitched 72billion cells to the starter so I'm guessing I'll probably roughly double that.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/index25.html#post952198

The Hob Goblin should be about 1.056 if I get it right. So here are my questions.

- Is the pint starter enough?

- Should I add another pint?

- If I refrigerate it to settle out the yeast do I bring it to room temp before pitching?

 

[giligson]

Ideally its not just the number of yeast cells that you are pitching which is important but also the phase of life that they are in. You would like them to be in about mid log phase - ie actively growing and dividing. Flocked yeast are in a low energy rest phase, they are not dividing and they are using up stored food reserves. You need to introduce some fresh food for them to ramp them up. Bring your yeast out to room temp 24 hr before pitch, pour off about 2/3 of the clear fluid above the flocked yeast (supernatant) and add room temp fresh wort (DME that you have made up to about 1.040 - 1.020) and let them go at it. Next day at pitch you should have a nice cloudy suspension of very active yeast with some foam on top - pitch this.

 

[Grinder12000]

"subtly different" as justification

I have no problem with that. It's like buying more then one book on the subject - sure the text is redundant but sometimes the way a person says something "clicks" in your brain.

For instance - "Starter's" I've been spanked for "not using the search" but this is the first time someone has said something as eloquently as giligson just did and "CLICK" - I understand the "clear fluid above the flocked yeast" now!!!!

I ALWAYS had "clear fluid above the flocked yeast" and now I know why.

 

[flyangler18]

Like giligson mentioned, stepping up a starter moves the yeast from a dormant flocculant state into active growth. By harvesting a slurry, you are going to have a high cell count and they will rapidly consume a pint starter. When the food in the wort is exhausted, they will flocculate just as they did when your beer finished fermenting. More available sugars means active yeast.

From a purely practical standpoint, I decant the oxidized and foul-tasting 'beer' off the yeast slurry because a) I don't want those funky flavors in my beer and b) in large 1+ L starters, this extra wort makes my volumes all wonky.

 

[Grinder12000]

My last bunch of starters all seem to flocculate within a day - is this normal?? By the time I'm ready to pitch I think I have beer in my starter so as you do I decant.

So when things are looking placid add more DME or sugar?

 

[wildwest450]

If I refrigerate it to settle out the yeast do I bring it to room temp before pitching?

I always take out before brewing, pour out most of the liquid, recover and let warm to pitching temp, then swirl and pitch.

 

[GroovePuppy]

Ideally its not just the number of yeast cells that you are pitching which is important but also the phase of life that they are in. You would like them to be in about mid log phase - ie actively growing and dividing. Flocked yeast are in a low energy rest phase, they are not dividing and they are using up stored food reserves. You need to introduce some fresh food for them to ramp them up. Bring your yeast out to room temp 24 hr before pitch, pour off about 2/3 of the clear fluid above the flocked yeast (supernatant) and add room temp fresh wort (DME that you have made up to about 1.040 - 1.020) and let them go at it. Next day at pitch you should have a nice cloudy suspension of very active yeast with some foam on top - pitch this.

That sounds like a good plan. I believe, now that you mention it, that Palmer's book mentions something similar regarding "yeast life cycle". He does however also mention floccing the yeast before pitching but doesn't say anything about warming it back up.

So I think I'll refrigerate tomorrow, which will be at two days, pour off most of the fluid on Friday and add more wort, then leave it over night and just pitch the whole pint and a bit. It's the same DME as the recipe so it seems unlikely it'll affect the flavor profile much.

I have no problem with that. It's like buying more then one book on the subject - sure the text is redundant but sometimes the way a person says something "clicks" in your brain.

Yeah I feel bad sometimes because what I'm asking always ends up being a current or repeated subject, but the nugget of info I want to clarify things in MY head always seems to be missing. Like I said above, Palmer talks about floccing the starter to get rid of the unneeded wort but doesn't say to warm it back up. What I need is "at this time on this day do xyz and then.....", you know, a detailed step by step process. I am an engineer however.

 

[flyangler18]

Yeast also do different things in the presence of oxygen. I aerate the snot out of my starters to get a vial of WL or smack pack of Wyeast reproducing quickly, rather than simply fermenting out the sugars in the wort. Ideally, you want your starter on a stirplate- this keeps the yeast in suspension and active. But swirling the container vigorously whenever you can does the trick as well.

As far as flocculating out in a day or two, I'd say that's pretty normal. Just rouse them regularly. Think about the small volume of a starter. The yeast is going to consume those available sugars very quickly.

 

[GroovePuppy]

I'm still at the "exponential" phase of my brewing knowledge. I now know a ton of stuff I didn't know before. Trouble is there are still big holes in the midst of it all.

I know oxygen plus sugars = reproduction, no oxygen plus sugars = alcohol and CO2, then fermentation continues as other stuff is consumed to "condition" the brew. I also know that my LHBS are idiots when they tell me I can't primary with minimal headspace for my Apfelwein after full aeration because the wort needs oxygen above it for the yeast to work.

My starter is in a 2L coke bottle. I drained the fluid off my 30ml of harvested yeast at room temp and dumped it in with a pint of water/half cup of DME wort and shook the crap out of it. Every hour or so last night I got up and shook it. It had started fermenting in a few hours or so. The yeast farts were horrendous. Shook again this morning.

No airlock, just a loosely fitted cap. Stirplate sounds like a fun future project. I'd need a flat bottomed container for that tho.

Edit: When I say "I got up every hour or so last night" I meant from the sofa while watching a movie. I didn't get up at 3AM just to shake my starter. Just in case you think I'm obsessing.

 

[OneShoeBrew]

Does it help to aerate your (5) gallons of cooled wort before you pitch the yeast starter, or is it fine to simply aerate the starter, pitch it, stir it and cap the primary?

Thanks,