Starter gone bad?

[fatmoose]

So I decided to try and do a yeast starter or my second batch, a batch that I had intended to do this past weekend but time got the better of me. I boiled two cups of LME with 6 pints of water, which is the ratio I found when doing some research on the matter, brought the temp down below 70F and pitched my yeast in there. I didn't have a particularly appropriate vessel and ended up improvising with a gallon milk jug that I had cleaned and sanitized and some foil over the top of the mouth. It's been sitting in my basement since last Wednesday, ambient temps between about 61F and 65, and I decided that I'd put it in the fridge since I'm not sure when precisely I'm going to get my brew on again. I took a whiff and it smelled not like I expected, more like wine than beer, a fairly strong alcohol smell. This doesn't seem right to me, guessing that things have gone wrong. Probably didn't get the milk jug properly cleaned up and should find a more appropriate vessel for this.

Not a catastrophe as I've anticipated screw-ups and have extra yeast on hand, but it seems a shame to waste the yeast as well as my time on this. Any comments that folks have as to whether this has indeed gone pear shaped or not I'd love to hear.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I boiled two cups of LME with 6 pints of water, which is the ratio I found when doing some research on the matter... <snip>...ambient temps between about 61F and 65...<snip>

Did you mean two cups extract, 6 cups water?

Also, with my starters, I try to keep temps around 70. 61 might be a bit low. However, that doesn't explain the wine-ish smell. Did you taste it? Hopefully no active cultures were left from the milk.

TB

 

[fatmoose]

Did you mean two cups extract, 6 cups water?

Also, with my starters, I try to keep temps around 70. 61 might be a bit low. However, that doesn't explain the wine-ish smell. Did you taste it? Hopefully no active cultures were left from the milk.

TB

Yes,yes, 6 cups not pints.

I'll see what I can do for upping starter temps in the future.

Leftover something from the milk is my concern. I cleaned and sanitized but the surface of these things probably don't lend themselves to good cleaning.

 

[Frodo]

My starters don't really have a "beer" aspect to them - they taste kind of sour, and just pretty nasty. They're supposed to be made way over-oxidated so the yeast are really healthy, and that creates some off-taste. I wouldn't say they taste like wine either though...

I guess your best bet is to trash that one, then next time use a glass container, like a 2 qt mason jar or large Ernest and Julio Gallo type wine bottle. It might end up smelling the same way as this one, but at least you won't run the chance of ruining 5 gal of brew.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Taste the starter wort. Is it sour?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

My starters don't really have a "beer" aspect to them - they taste kind of sour, and just pretty nasty. They're supposed to be made way over-oxidated so the yeast are really healthy, and that creates some off-taste. I wouldn't say they taste like wine either though...

Another good point. Starter worts don't usually taste good, but I don't recall tasting one that was sour. I asked about sourness in relation to any lactic cultures leftover from the milk. It's possible, but not probable.

What kind of yeast did you use?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I'm more perplexed by why you left the starter out for a week.

 

[fatmoose]

I'm more perplexed by why you left the starter out for a week.

I kept thinking I was going to have time to brew the next day, but then I didn't have time, repeat. I probably should have grabbed it at one of those times but it was a crazy weekend.

 

[fatmoose]

Another good point. Starter worts don't usually taste good, but I don't recall tasting one that was sour. I asked about sourness in relation to any lactic cultures leftover from the milk. It's possible, but not probable.

What kind of yeast did you use?

Didn't taste it this morning as I didn't have time to extract a sample in a fashion that wouldn't contaminate things (assuming it is not already contaminated). I did manage to grab a pic of it, I guess it doesn't look bad. There's one area of floatsam that looks like it could be a culture of bad stuff but that might be my imagination getting the best of me.

I used a Wyeast American Ale Activator 1056.

 

[fatmoose]

I guess your best bet is to trash that one, then next time use a glass container, like a 2 qt mason jar or large Ernest and Julio Gallo type wine bottle. It might end up smelling the same way as this one, but at least you won't run the chance of ruining 5 gal of brew.

Yeah, leaning in that direction right now. I do want to try and do a starter for my next brew as I'm planning a DIPA that has a SG in the 1.070 range. Maybe I'll write this one off as practice.

 

[Gremlyn]

Sounds like you let it sit far too long; since last Wednesday at room temp, right? They shouldn't really go over 24 hours, 36 maybe if it's a big starter. You don't want the yeast to get much into the fermentation phase, you want them to be in the growth phase. If you can't use the starter in the right time frame, stick it in the fridge.

 

[Gremlyn]

Didn't taste it this morning as I didn't have time to extract a sample in a fashion that wouldn't contaminate things (assuming it is not already contaminated). I did manage to grab a pic of it, I guess it doesn't look bad. There's one area of floatsam that looks like it could be a culture of bad stuff but that might be my imagination getting the best of me.

I used a Wyeast American Ale Activator 1056.

That looks completely normal.

 

[fatmoose]

Sounds like you let it sit far too long; since last Wednesday at room temp, right? They shouldn't really go over 24 hours, 36 maybe if it's a big starter. You don't want the yeast to get much into the fermentation phase, you want them to be in the growth phase. If you can't use the starter in the right time frame, stick it in the fridge.

Yeah, from last Wednesday

I'll find me a more appropriate vessel and see about trying this again. At least no actual beer was harmed in the making of this starter :cross:

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Hey, wasting 2 cups of DME is far better than wasting 5gal of labored wort. Live and learn my friend!

 

[devilishprune]

Not to threadjack, but is it normal for 3 layers to form in a starter?

The bottom one looked creamy like it was yeast, the middle layer was a medium colored wort, and then there was a thin layer of darker colored something on top. I got scared of it so I threw it in the fridge about half an hour ago. Up to that point.

It didn't smell off either, really. I mean, starters don't really smell good do they?

Do I have an infection or anything on my hands here?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Not to threadjack, but is it normal for 3 layers to form in a starter?

The bottom one looked creamy like it was yeast, the middle layer was a medium colored wort, and then there was a thin layer of darker colored something on top. I got scared of it so I threw it in the fridge about half an hour ago. Up to that point.

It didn't smell off either, really. I mean, starters don't really smell good do they?

Do I have an infection or anything on my hands here?

You might just be noticing the yeast gradient. Yeast will sort of stratify in the starter as it settles unless you're using a stir plate (which I'm assuming you didn't if you see that).

If after a day in the fridge you see a white-ish cake on bottom and relatively homogeneous liquid on top, then you've got nothing to worry about as far as the colors you saw. Do smell it, though. Starters don't necessarily smell good like beer, but they shouldn't smell like gym sock either.