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RichN

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This is 1st time I used Star San and it foamed up in Carboy. Do I just leave foam in there or rinse out? Will foam hurt anything?
 

webnmar

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Tons of Threads on here to answer the question.

Leave the foam, it is good for it. If you rinse, you rinse away the effectiveness. DON'T FEAR THE FOAM!!!
 

TheGerman

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Yeah, I had the same question not too long ago. After researching a bit, I found out that the Star San is fine to leave foamy, sp you can leave it in there. Remember, it is 1oz for 5 gal so use it sparingly. I would recommend less, use 1 gal of water and swish it around. Less foam and probably less concern, though the foam will NOT affect the taste
Cheers,
-Chris
 
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RichN

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I used 1/4oz to 1.25 Gals. Think that is ok? If you use less what ratio?
 
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RichN

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New Question: Can youstore StarSan? I made up 1 1/2 gal and was wondering if I could store in glass bottle? If so how long? I heard you can use in spray bottle. If so how long can it stay in there?
 

gmadd

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OK, so I use Star San and I know that everybody raves about it. "Don't fear the foam." I'm not worried about the phosphoric acid. But, ingesting dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid doesn't sound healthy to me. I mean, isn't Benzene a known carcinogen? I love the stuff, it works great, it cured any sanitizing problem I've had, but can someone please ease my fear about the aromatic hydrocarbon thing? Do yeast really break it down?
 

Revvy

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OK, so I use Star San and I know that everybody raves about it. "Don't fear the foam." I'm not worried about the phosphoric acid. But, ingesting dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid doesn't sound healthy to me. I mean, isn't Benzene a known carcinogen? I love the stuff, it works great, it cured any sanitizing problem I've had, but can someone please ease my fear about the aromatic hydrocarbon thing? Do yeast really break it down?
Well it's your choice if you want to fear and FDA approved no-rinse sanitizers for brewing that millions use everyday.....

Why don't you listen to a podcast with the creator of it...

March 29, 2007 - Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San
Charlie Talley from Five Star Chemicals tells us best practices in using household bleach and Star San in sanitizing equipment.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3

Me, I'm not worried......
 

Weezknight

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I don't fear the foam, nor do I fear the actual StarSan! When cooling my wort in the ice bath, I take my spoon directly out of the StarSan and right into the cooling wort to stir it. I'm sure the StarSan gets into the beer that way too.

Actually I thought I remember reading about someone who has actually tasted the diluted StarSan before!
 

elmetal

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I've tasted diluted starsan many many times.

mostly because I made some tapwater beers that I thought tasted like starsan. nope... tasted like poolwater
 

gmadd

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Thanks Revvy that was a good audio file. I can continue to use my Star San and sleep well. Funny I trust that guy more than I trust the FDA, maybe it's the whole Thalidomide thing, or the Viox thing, or the.....well you get my point.
 

Chad

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If Charlie Talley doesn't put "Don't Fear the Foam" t-shirts up for sale soon he's an idiot and missing a huge opportunity.
 

shortyjacobs

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OK, so I use Star San and I know that everybody raves about it. "Don't fear the foam." I'm not worried about the phosphoric acid. But, ingesting dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid doesn't sound healthy to me. I mean, isn't Benzene a known carcinogen? I love the stuff, it works great, it cured any sanitizing problem I've had, but can someone please ease my fear about the aromatic hydrocarbon thing? Do yeast really break it down?
Benzene and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid are two VERY different things.

Just because both have a benzene ring doesn't mean anything....does chicken taste like wood because both contain mostly carbon?

The MSDS lists no carcinogenic effects, (of course, it lists toxic effects, but these are in the concentrated form).

I suppose if you're really worried, you can switch to iodophor though...
 

SupraSPL

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Always good to be skeptical GMADD. I wasn't sold on Star San until after I heard the podcast either. Now that I understand it better, it's the least concerning no rinse sanitizer I could choose.

If you use R/O water you should have no problem storing it diluted. Before I knew how Start San worked I used spring water that had a high PH and it turned milky very fast. Brewing a pair of 5 gallon batches used less than 1/2 gal Star San. Used a bit more than 1/2 gal Star San for bottling 100 beers.
 

rico567

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OK, so I use Star San and I know that everybody raves about it. "Don't fear the foam." I'm not worried about the phosphoric acid. But, ingesting dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid doesn't sound healthy to me. I mean, isn't Benzene a known carcinogen? I love the stuff, it works great, it cured any sanitizing problem I've had, but can someone please ease my fear about the aromatic hydrocarbon thing? Do yeast really break it down?
Your body has lots of Hydrogen and Nitrogen in it. Put those together one way, you've got- you. Put them together another way, you've got Hydrogen Cyanide. A molecule may have "benzene" in the name, but you can't infer its effects from that. 'Nuff said.
 

beer_master

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Benzene and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid are two VERY different things.

Just because both have a benzene ring doesn't mean anything....does chicken taste like wood because both contain mostly carbon?

The MSDS lists no carcinogenic effects, (of course, it lists toxic effects, but these are in the concentrated form).

I suppose if you're really worried, you can switch to iodophor though...
The docecyl fatty acid chain gets metabolized into acetyl-CoA during lipid oxidation in the respiring yeast cell which then frees up the benzene head group. SaniClean contains oleic acid sulfonate instead of docecylbenzene sulfonic acid.Oleic acid is an omega-mono unsaturated fatty acid that will certainly help the yeast build healthier cell walls
 

shortyjacobs

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The docecyl fatty acid chain gets metabolized into acetyl-CoA during lipid oxidation in the respiring yeast cell which then frees up the benzene head group. SaniClean contains oleic acid sulfonate instead of docecylbenzene sulfonic acid.Oleic acid is an omega-mono unsaturated fatty acid that will certainly help the yeast build healthier cell walls
Really? Cool. But the benzene head group would still be some type of benzene sulfonic acid, right? The yeast aren't farting out actual benzene...

And if you buy into the healthier cell walls deal, then 1 drop of olive oil will provide the oleic fatty acids, no? ;).
 

jeffmeh

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Really? Cool. But the benzene head group would still be some type of benzene sulfonic acid, right? The yeast aren't farting out actual benzene...

And if you buy into the healthier cell walls deal, then 1 drop of olive oil will provide the oleic fatty acids, no? ;).
Yes, and some add olive oil to promote yeast growth. There is a debate about it, but from what I gather the appropriate amount on a homebrew scale is so small that it would be difficult to administer properly in practice. Or perhaps you already knew that....
 

shortyjacobs

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Yes, and some add olive oil to promote yeast growth. There is a debate about it, but from what I gather the appropriate amount on a homebrew scale is so small that it would be difficult to administer properly in practice. Or perhaps you already knew that....
lol, actually, I was trying to pull off "tongue in cheek", as I'm on the "it doesn't do crap" side of the argument....but to each their own!:mug:
 

gmadd

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Thanks for all the feedback. I'm happy that I can keep using Star San because since I started using it I have had no infection problems. It's funny, I brought up the question about it because two people that invited over to brew have been really freaked out by the bottle (that warning label is pretty scary). Before they pointed it out to me I didn't think about it at all. With all the feedback I feel like I have a more solid understanding of the sanitizer. That's why these groups are great, you can get a ton of helpful feedback in less than 24 hours. Thanks, and now I will RDWHAHB.
 

beer_master

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Really? Cool. But the benzene head group would still be some type of benzene sulfonic acid, right? The yeast aren't farting out actual benzene...

And if you buy into the healthier cell walls deal, then 1 drop of olive oil will provide the oleic fatty acids, no? ;).


I still use StarSan despite the trace levels of Benzene. You're right however, once the fatty acid chains are released, the benzene molecule will still have hydroxyl groups bound to it. which means it's not pure benzene. In fact its polarity would prevent it from escaping through the yeast cell wall passively. So maybe it stays in the yeast and drops out in the secondary.
 

gmadd

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Believe it or not Mordantly you kind of hit the nail right on the head. In an article by the European Medicines Agency (Veterinary Medicines and Inspections) we find that Linear alkyl benzene sulphonic acids (LAS) are "indicated for post-dipping or teat-spraying of dairy cows." So you may be able to find some dairy farmers with what you describe. Now the interesting thing about this article is that it also has info about what happens when mice eat the stuff. If anyone is interested it is at

http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/075500en.pdf

It, in addition to the sound file Revvy posted, helped me get over my fear of the skull and cross bones on the Star San label.
 

Revvy

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This is from one of the older "paranoid noob starsan fear threads." :D

As you say, these warnings are for the undiluted Star San product. There is no concern once it has been diluted properly. There is less phosphoric acid in properly diluted Star San than in a glass of Coca Cola. So you have to ask yourself, would you take the same precautions with a glass of soda pop? If you answered YES, then rinse away!

:fro:
Also...ever here about covering your ass with legal boilerplate in case someone does something stupid???

People are stupid...and Lawyers are smart enough to cover their clients ass with warnings.....like warning on cruise controls in campers, not to engage them, and get up and go to the bathroom...or other fun things like these...The Darwin Awards
 

dsbcmp

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is there a recommended wait period after sanitizing equipment with starsan?
 

bleedbluesgtr71

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Its probably not that bad for you, its not really that significant of an amount after being diluted in water. Also soda pop has sodium benzoate in it, which breaks down into benzene in the human body...
 

tcbailey

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gmadd said:
OK, so I use Star San and I know that everybody raves about it. "Don't fear the foam." I'm not worried about the phosphoric acid. But, ingesting dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid doesn't sound healthy to me. I mean, isn't Benzene a known carcinogen? I love the stuff, it works great, it cured any sanitizing problem I've had, but can someone please ease my fear about the aromatic hydrocarbon thing? Do yeast really break it down?
Benzene by itself is bad, but there are "benzene" rings in many of the things we eat and drink. Aromatic rings do not equal carcinogens.
 

rico567

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Benzene by itself is bad, but there are "benzene" rings in many of the things we eat and drink. Aromatic rings do not equal carcinogens.
This is true. Apples can be put in a bag with bananas and will speed ripening, because apples evolve benzene....in tiny amounts. The foam in the dilute solution (1/4 oz per gallon water) of Star San is also pretty dilute, when you take that tiny amount of liquid an dilute it in 5 gallons of beer. I'm too lazy to actually crunch the numbers on how dilute the acid itself (assuming it survives) would be after this, but.....not much.
 

GotPushrods

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If you're really worried about ((potentially) trace) amounts of benzene (containing compounds), you could just buy phosphoric acid by the drum and make your own non-foaming, surfactant-free sanitizer. It will be cheaper too.

But squeezing the bottle is fun. So are foam snakes.
 

jbvaat

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This is an old thread but .. looking through it, seems people are talking about the KNOWN substances in StarSan but in the product MSDS you can see that 35% of the product includes something that is classified as 'trade secret'..
How can one trust this not to include anything bad? How can we judge its safety?
 

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