Last night I was bottling and I had a tub of star san for sanitizing bottles and hoses. While I was siphoning into the bottling bucket I left the copper hose connector from the spigot soaking in the star san for about 10 or 15 minutes. After I removed it from the star san it was a bright copper colour (like a shiny new penny). I then reassembled the bottling bucket spigot and proceeded to bottle, giving every bottle a quick star san rinse immediately before filling. When I was done I noticed the star san had a slight metallic odour and when cleaning up I noticed that the copper hose connector had the same odour (but much stronger) as did my hands after touching it. Did I leach copper or some other toxic compound into the star san? Did I then contaminate every bottle with the final rinse before bottling? I didn't notice any change in Star San colour but it could have been missed due to that suds. This has been an obsession since last night when I've bottled - I've done countless searches, looked through all the books I have, re-listened to the Brew Strong eps on Metals and emailed 5-star but haven't heard back yet. I've heard about yeast precipitating out metals, but this is a hefeweizen and we will be drinking the yeast. Should this be something I concern myself with (and dump the batch) or am I over reacting?
Star San and Copper safety
- Thread starter gbx
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BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
The beer should be ok unless you left gross amounts of stan san in each bottle. Star san is an acidic sanitizer and it will dissolve copper. If you need to soak sanitize copper for any length of time try using iodophor instead.
LordUlrich
Well-Known Member
Yes you dissolved copper into your star san. BUT as with all toxicity issues it is a mater of concentration. If you knew all the compounds you find in your tap water you would never drink anything again, but the important part is the concentration is low enough for your body to metabolize. Also if i remember correctly copper as a toxin is mostly a concern for infants, and children. Adults can respond to the toxin and dispose of it much better than children (plus it takes more to affect a full sized human).
As far as the yeast and copper thing, i believe the yeast use it to make some other compound important for their health, and much less toxic than elemental copper.
the bottom line of my rambling is, dump the starsan (if you haven't yet), and don't worry unless you taste a metallic flavor.
As far as the yeast and copper thing, i believe the yeast use it to make some other compound important for their health, and much less toxic than elemental copper.
the bottom line of my rambling is, dump the starsan (if you haven't yet), and don't worry unless you taste a metallic flavor.
dutchoven
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't dump your batch, nor would I worry about about it. And I wouldn't be concerned about toxicity in this situation (small part soaking for 15 minutes). Starsan is acidic, so it will dissolve metals. I would taste your final product, then decide whether to dump.
Not to cause further alarm, but was your hose connector made of brass? If its copper color and threaded, its likely brass. Brass does contain lead, but in relatively small amounts.
In general, I keep my copper away from the acids. I may use a quick starsan or vinegar rinse to remove verdigris (blue/green oxidation) from copper, but I dispose of these solutions and thoroughly rinse the part before use. I don't use brass with beer.
Hope it all works out. Post back after tasting the beer.
Not to cause further alarm, but was your hose connector made of brass? If its copper color and threaded, its likely brass. Brass does contain lead, but in relatively small amounts.
In general, I keep my copper away from the acids. I may use a quick starsan or vinegar rinse to remove verdigris (blue/green oxidation) from copper, but I dispose of these solutions and thoroughly rinse the part before use. I don't use brass with beer.
Hope it all works out. Post back after tasting the beer.
Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't soaking it for any reason other than the tub of starsan was a place to put it while i was siphoning and I didn't think it would be a problem. This is the one little piece of somewhat sketchy metal I have in my brewing equipment. It's a little adapter no longer than a half an inch that a small length of hose attaches to. Its not threaded, it just presses in with some teflon tape to seal it. I thought it was brass but my father inlaw who was a plumber tells me it is copper. He said if it was just copper being disolved then it isn't a problem but he doesn't know anything about Star San- there could be toxic compounds formed depending on star san's composition and how it reacts with the copper. But there shouldn't be too much of whatever was formed in the final product - when i rinse the bottles I try not to foam it up to much, just run it in and drain while rotating so it touches the entire inside of the bottle. The inside is just wet when i fill them.
I'll post back after tasting (unless it kills me) or if i get word back from 5-star.
I'll post back after tasting (unless it kills me) or if i get word back from 5-star.
metals do not give off odors. any general sensation of smell you get is due to small particles or vapor of a given substance. no solid metal gives off a vapor, and even mercury, which does give off a constant stream of vaporized metal at room temperature, does not have an odor that humans can detect.
also 15 minutes is not nearly long enough time to disolve enough copper from that small fitting to be concerned about, or probably even to be measured. dont worry about it.
also 15 minutes is not nearly long enough time to disolve enough copper from that small fitting to be concerned about, or probably even to be measured. dont worry about it.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
I soak my copper parts (CFC, others) in StarSan - and don't they look good when you take them out! Plus all the germs are dead....
No worries. However, do make sure that you're following label directions - using one ounce of StarSan per 5 gallons - no need to make it any stronger, as that is a plenty strong acid at it's normal dilution.
No worries. However, do make sure that you're following label directions - using one ounce of StarSan per 5 gallons - no need to make it any stronger, as that is a plenty strong acid at it's normal dilution.
I always soak my immersion chiller in starsan before chilling for a few mins and always after chilling to clean it up. I've been using that chiller for 25+ batches without a problem. Like the others have said properly dilute the starsan and you should be fine.
Follow up...here is the response I got from the manufacturer:
You will be fine. Yes, Star San will shine copper up nicely. It might have pulled some oxalate off of the copper. This will not harm you. The metallic odor could be many things. It is probably the star san cleaning the copper. This is not toxic.
I also sent an email asking the same thing to John Palmer and got a similar response:
Nothing to worry about unless you were to drink the entire bucket of starsan. And then it would be a toss up between the starsan or the copper that was making you feel nauseous. ;-)
Hurray for the homebrew industry and community! And a quick response too!
You will be fine. Yes, Star San will shine copper up nicely. It might have pulled some oxalate off of the copper. This will not harm you. The metallic odor could be many things. It is probably the star san cleaning the copper. This is not toxic.
I also sent an email asking the same thing to John Palmer and got a similar response:
Nothing to worry about unless you were to drink the entire bucket of starsan. And then it would be a toss up between the starsan or the copper that was making you feel nauseous. ;-)
Hurray for the homebrew industry and community! And a quick response too!
But how did the beer turn out? I have the same problem but when the starsan touches the copper the smell of the starsan is horrible.
Do you have a PH meter? What was the PH of the final beer post fermentation ?
Do you have a PH meter? What was the PH of the final beer post fermentation ?
The beer was fine - there was no noticeable metallic flavours in it and it did not cause any noticeable health effects. I find star san starts to stink if it touches any metal other than stainless...even sanitizing Grosch bottles, the metal hangers on the flip caps is enough to make it smell metallic. One thing I've changed about my sanitation process is I dump the starsan out and make up a fresh batch a lot more often. At the quantities its diluted to, its cheap enough to not take any risks.
