Stainless fermenter... yes or no?

[RePete]

Following. I have been going through much the same thinking. I have been fermenting in glass carboys for the most part. I was about ready to go ahead and get a Fermzilla. Haven’t been convinced that the SS Brew bucket is worth spending the extra money? Part of the attraction of the Fermzilla is that it can be used to serve from if I’m short on kegs, part is harvesting yeast, part is pressurized fermentation, and part is closed transfers. It’s a lot of features for the price. I’m not so worried about scratching it, as I know to be careful. I
also do 5-6 gallon batches. Yeast harvesting is the least critical feature, because as someone said, it can be poured out at the end. Currently I am leaning towards the 7.6 gallon Kegmenter. Now $180 through Williams.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I was about ready to go ahead and get a Fermzilla. Haven’t been convinced that the SS Brew bucket is worth spending the extra money? Part of the attraction of the Fermzilla is that it can be used to serve from if I’m short on kegs, part is harvesting yeast, part is pressurized fermentation, and part is closed transfers. It’s a lot of features for the price. I’m not so worried about scratching it, as I know to be careful.

I suppose the "scratch factor" will always be a factor with plastic. I also suppose that's one key advantage of SS over plastic.

You'd probably do well with that Fermzilla! At the moment, I'm literally between that and the Spike Flex+.

Forgive me if I'm spreading misinformation - I think the Fermzilla was marketing the ability to add dry hops from the bottom, in the collection trap, without O2 exposure...and can upgrade to purge with CO2. O2-free dry hop addition is important to me. If that can be done in FZ but no Flex+... narrows the competition, for me.

 

[RePete]

Forgive me if I'm spreading misinformation - I think the Fermzilla was marketing the ability to add dry hops from the bottom, in the collection trap, without O2 exposure...and can upgrade to purge with CO2. O2-free dry hop addition is important to me. If that can be done in FZ but no Flex+... narrows the competition, for me.

I think you are correct. Good point. I don’t know about the Flex+

 

[RePete]

I’m trying to keep it under $200. The FZ is $130, plus $20-30 for floating ball kit. So $160? The Kegmenter is $180, and includes the floating ball. So, maybe a $20 difference. And it’s stainless. And I need another keg. Lol.

The hesitation for me about the FZ is that the whole valve and collection trap deal at the bottom seems like both an attractive feature and a possible source of trouble. Mostly worried about how it will hold up long term, since it’s plastic . Will it leak? Can probably just replace that part if so I guess.

 

[Andrew7447]

I’m trying to keep it under $200. The FZ is $130, plus $20-30 for floating ball kit. So $160? The Kegmenter is $180, and includes the floating ball. So, maybe a $20 difference. And it’s stainless. And I need another keg. Lol.

The hesitation for me about the FZ is that the whole valve and collection trap deal at the bottom seems like both an attractive feature and a possible source of trouble. Mostly worried about how it will hold up long term, since it’s plastic . Will it leak? Can probably just replace that part if so I guess.

I cant get a Kegmenter in canada I dont think. But I do have a custom keg 50L keg I brew with. Works well, probably will last forever. The fermzilla does have zero 02 dry hops tho and seeing the beer itself ferment is cool and watching the beer flow is convenient too. Mine doesnt leak, but I do need to use keg lube and have things tight with the addeed tool.

 

[RePete]

Thanks for the report. Good to hear that the FZ is serving you well.

 

[Yesfan]

Appreciate the shout out, but I do not ferment under pressure at all lol. During fermentation I will hook up the gas post from the fermonster and allow the CO2 generated from the fermentation to purge a keg full of star san though. The system I am using does allow for closed transfers and Im still gravity transferring from the FV to the serving keg but I know others will transfer under about ~8PSI pushing the liquid to keg from the CO2 tank. In my processes, I never get above 5PSI and thats only when Im gravity transferring to keg. The fermonster is not rated to undergo pressure and with the modified lid Im using you CAN load it to about 10PSI but Ive never had the guts to push it. I think @flintoid HAS used this same system Im using to ferment under pressure though at around 10-15PSI.

10psi on the Fermonsters?? That's scary as hell thinking about that. I can't even imagine doing a pressurized fermentation in one either. I would love to see some video of that.

I've since sold my Fermonsters (kinda wished I kept at least one of them), but when I was transferring to kegs, I never went higher than about 2 psi. Basically, I turned the regulator up just enough for the beer to be pushed up into the racking cane.

 

[Bassman2003]

Late the party, but here is my fermenter - a 30L Fusti. I have a wine fridge with the same dimensions. I had a small cabinet made to elevate the fridge so any kind of transfer is easy gravity. For closed keg transfers I just hook up a hose with a QD on one end and run the gas out of the keg back up into the airlock hole. No pressure needed, no O2 either.

The longer I brew the less time I spend in the fermenter. So while it is important for some things, with great yeast health and solid brewing practice, ales should only need the thing for 3-5 days and lagers around a week.

This fusti has been great. I upgraded the spigot to fit 3/8" I.D. tubing and drilled a hole for the air lock on the top. It is light, easy to clean and seals well. (Don't mind the spots, I let it air dry and do not polish the outside). Here is the link - Fusti Tank 30 Liter - The Vintner Vault

 

[ChiknNutz]

The more I read, the more overwhelming it seems as there are so many options to consider. I still just use a plastic bucket with a spigot as a primary (the William's Brewing kit). I'd like to move up to the next stage for another primary fermenter just so I can do a couple batches at once. But honestly have the analysis paralysis going on now.

 

[ILMSTMF]

The more I read, the more overwhelming it seems

Ditto that.

Currently, my decision is between Spike Flex+ and Fermzilla. The single greatest obstacle here is not cost but, rather, footprint.
I like to control temperature using both sources for cooling and heating. I've seen FC builds using only one type - not enough, to me. 1) I want to cold crash, in place. I don't want to move vessel to a different chamber for cooling. 2) I want to ferment warm, near the end of fermentation.

Thus, figuring out a way to do that and not occupy more garage space (I have very little space left) has become an issue. I have height available. So I'm now trying to figure out a way to stack something in the space the current FC is. I.E. cooler on floor to supply a cooling coil with cold water, stack fermenter on top of cooler. I have no idea if that's even possible as that may put too much pressure on the cooler lid thus squeezing the supply line.

Which is why I'm here, in the great HBT community, trying to make a sensible plan. Cheers!

 

[Bassman2003]

In reading your original post, it seems you have the identical setup I have - mini fridge with bucket style fermenter with a spigot. Your goal was to upgrade the bucket to a better fermenter as well as do closed transfers right? Or has this morphed through the discussion?

I do closed transfers with gravity only out of the spigot. No need to change your setup just to do closed transfers.

 

[ILMSTMF]

In reading your original post

Your goal was to upgrade the bucket to a better fermenter as well as do closed transfers right? Or has this morphed through the discussion?

Morphed, perhaps drastically. Please excuse any confusion.

I do closed transfers with gravity only out of the spigot. No need to change your setup just to do closed transfers.

There's the difference - my primary bucket is without spigot. I have one like that, used to use for bottling, and have not treated it with care for a while. I fear it may have many micro-scratches which is part of why I don't want to trade out the current primary for it.
However, the new goal is to get a vessel that allows for pressure fermentation.

 

[IslandLizard]

The more I read, the more overwhelming it seems

Ditto that.

1985, AD. Before "Automation" was known as IT.
My department head asked me to look into developing a new way to store, access, (and archive) a current system of mostly paper and card-based data records used in another (internal), support department.

After doing some grassroots research, mainly to wet the appetite and generating interest in using newer, developing technology options (e.g., CD-R, PCs, small networks), I wrote a preliminary report on a few possible avenues to be researched in more depth.

The top manager of the department the card system ultimately fell under, not so coincidentally also in charge of the general budget, said: "All well and interesting, but you forgot to mention something.... The null-option!"

Although that was harsh, there was some truth to be learned.

When being a bit more open minded, it doesn't always have to mean: "Doing absolutely nothing!"
There are many ways to adapt existing systems and processes with surprisingly little effort.

Not judging the bling aspect of the alternatives presented here, there's no competition there.
But does any of those alternatives offer significant improvement over a modified plastic bucket system?
IOW, can a bucket system be modified and improved upon to include most or all the important advantages.
For example, my bucket lid with 3 holes for airlock, access, and inspection.

There are impediments everywhere, whatever you choose. You just need to learn to negotiate and work with them.
For example, in Marshall's (Brülosophy) review of the Flex+, he mentions the handles, which should not be used to lift the full fermenter.

But regardless of that warning, it ends up in his deep freezer chest, and he has to dive in there halfway to attach a hose to the valve of the racking assembly.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Here's my dude with the philosophy!

When being a bit more open minded, it doesn't always have to mean: "Doing absolutely nothing!"
There are many ways to adapt existing systems and processes with surprisingly little effort.

Indeed!

But does any of those alternatives offer significant improvement over a modified plastic bucket system?

We may be in the realm of subjectivity. The plastic bucket gets the job done, OK!

What improvement would I expect from changing systems?
• At a minimum, a better seal. One dumb example - the airlock sits tight in the grommet. The grommet I have for the thermowell is larger, to accommodate the wider thermowell (duh). The thermowell fits nicely but it requires less force to get it through the grommet whereas the airlock feels snug in its grommet. OK. So, possible leak. And possible point of entry for O2??
• A no-bullsh!t pressurized closed transfer. It's been a while since I did a gravity transfer... but I don't have good memories of it. I can picture the bucket on a stool (!) on a counter (!!!) to get enough height for the drop to waiting vessel. Don't ask, have vague memory of the details.
Anyway, the constant mental battle of "how do I do a closed transfer with this bucket?" has become exhausting. Yes, we developed a plan to drill a third hole in the lid which would allow for a SS racking cane to go in, stream CO2 into the airlock stem... but I never drilled that hole / got a grommet for it. The flaw with this method is getting the cane into the beer, above the trub line. It would require some effort. Plus, the auto siphon I normally use has a trub shield / deflector on the pickup. The SS cane does not so... could easily cause a clog during transfer. A clog that I'm not sure how I'd fix.
• no O2 exposure at any point. That might be a dream. How to 1) successfully / properly dry hop 2) without spending a small fortune on an accessory to do that with? But, sealing the vessel up after pitch and doing a closed transfer to keg is realistic, certainly.
• bonus would be to ferment under pressure.

Those are the gains I'd expect. If the vessel is relatively easy to move around, offers temp control at a reasonable price / footprint for new gear, and is easy to clean, I would have something that is worth changing systems for.

For example, in Marshall's (Brülosophy) review of the Flex+, he mentions the handles, which should not be used to lift the full fermenter.

Saw that, lol
FWIW, Spike's official position on the Flex+ is that it is not to be used for fermenting under pressure. That was a statement from one of their CSRs, via email. I believe, like the handle warning, that those positions are in place to release Spike from liability should the brewer ignore them. I understand that and respect them for their safety warnings. But that didn't stop Marshall from using those handles to move the full fermenter nor does it stop other brewers for fermenting under pressure.

There are impediments everywhere, whatever you choose.

Amen.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Just got a sale on a kegmenter for $175. Floating dip tube I plan to modify to blend off the porous weld or solder (whatever it is), but should work great for pressure transfers and no more complicated than cleaning a keg.

Where did you find them on sale?

I've been looking at getting a couple of those.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Where did you find them on sale?

I've been looking at getting a couple of those.

FYI, I am on the fence about one of these myself. Best price I've found is William's Brewing for $180 with free shipping.
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/76-Gallon-Kegland-Kegmenter-P4853.aspx

 

[RePete]

I’m still deciding between the FZ and the Kegmenter. Haven’t bought anything yet. Partly because I’m waiting to see how work plays out with the COVID-19 shutdown.

 

[ChiknNutz]

I pulled the trigger on the Kegmenter a few days ago, also ordered a couple corny kegs and supplies. Found new kegs for $70 each, hard not to go new at that price. Deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole I go!

 

[ILMSTMF]

I’m still deciding between the FZ and the Kegmenter

OP here. Might sound funny but I've changed course a bit. My plastic bucket is showing its age so I need a near-term solution if I plan to brew soon. So, looking at the Fermonster as a replacement.
Maybe down the road I will get a stainless fermenter. Need a bigger FC for that. For now, a smaller investment on something that should fit in my FC.

 

[RePete]

The good news is that just about any of these options work. Nothing wrong with getting something more economical for now.

 

[apache_brew]

Not sure if it was shot down somewhere in the thread, but have you considered sanke kegs? A slim quarter holds 7.75 gallons and would be great for 5 gallon batches. Get fancy and get a dip tube attachment from NorCal Brewing solutions. I ferment in a modified 1/2 bbl for 10 gallon batches.

 

[RePete]

Not sure if it was shot down somewhere in the thread, but have you considered sanke kegs? A slim quarter holds 7.75 gallons and would be great for 5 gallon batches. Get fancy and get a dip tube attachment from NorCal Brewing solutions. I ferment in a modified 1/2 bbl for 10 gallon batches.

Not another option! Lol. I was about settled on the Kegmenter, and will probably order one in the next few days. Unless there is something about this I need to look into.

 

[ChiknNutz]

In my limited knowledge, so take it accordingly, I'd say this is very similar to the Kegmenter, but could be a cheaper alternative if you can find a free or cheap keg.

 

[apache_brew]

I had one of these made with a 4” tri clamp for a custom Sanke keg (just like the kegmenter) and it’s great. The only pain are all the npt threads that I insist on taking apart and sanitizing between brews. That being said, its a realitivly cheap price if you don’t want a cone to drop yeast.

 

[apache_brew]

Here’s another really slick setup I found for using tri clamp parts and a floating dip tube.

 

[RePete]

Ok. It looks a little more involved than I want to get with this. Plus, cost. If I already had the keg, maybe. Thanks though.

 

[Knightshade]

That doesn't have to be the case when you use kegs for aging. Do a normal closed, oxygen-free transfer in 100% liquid pre-purged kegs as if they are serving kegs. Then age them for however long you want. Also easy to push out small samples along the way or infuse with tinctures. Even adding wood cubes or chips can be done under CO2 with minimal or no O2 invasion.

I don’t want to deviate from the topic, but I’ve been seriously wondering how this is done.

I have a recipe that calls for rum soaked oak chips and a vanilla bean. I have one of those filter cages you can hang from a tab on the underside of a corny keg lid, but...

Putting that into a keg filled with StarSan to then purge doesn’t make much sense. So would you:

• Rack from fermenter into the keg,
• Do a slow flow of CO2 with the PRV open
• Pop the lid
• Spray star San all to hell over everything
• Attach the cage
• Pop the lid back on
• Let the CO2 continue to push out of keg PRV for awhile
• Close PRV
• Pressurize and then let it age?

 

[IslandLizard]

I don’t want to deviate from the topic, but I’ve been seriously wondering how this is done.

I have a recipe that calls for rum soaked oak chips and a vanilla bean. I have one of those filter cages you can hang from a tab on the underside of a corny keg lid, but...

Putting that into a keg filled with StarSan to then purge doesn’t make much sense. So would you:

• Rack from fermenter into the keg,
• Do a slow flow of CO2 with the PRV open
• Pop the lid
• Spray star San all to hell over everything
• Attach the cage
• Pop the lid back on
• Let the CO2 continue to push out of keg PRV for awhile
• Close PRV
• Pressurize and then let it age?

Yes, that's the general idea.
The headspace, as long as it's small, say a pint to a quart, is very purgeable after it's been opened to add stuff, while streaming CO2 into it.
Now if the headspace is half the keg, not so.

• Rack from fermenter into the keg ==> Through the liquid out post, keg remains closed
• Attach the cage ==> There's gonna be air in there, so that's not the most ideal, but I have no alternative for it
• Let the CO2 continue to push out of keg PRV for awhile ==> Yes, keep flushing. Or probably more efficient is purging under pressure. Say to 30 psi, 5-10 times or so. The law of diminishing returns starts kicking in quickly after 5 times or so.

I'm not aware of any threads where this is discussed with conclusive solutions or more suitable answers.

Instead of having to remove the lid, which is cumbersome in itself, leaving a huge opening, a smaller 1/2 - 1" (tri-clover) access port in the keg lid would be more advantageous. Or use another, more suitable vessel.

 

[Golddiggie]

I've been using converted commercial beer kegs (of different sizes) to ferment in for ages now (or it just seems that way). Most of the current batch have a ball lock base TIG welded into the top and then I use a TC cap that I made for the liquid out post as well as a thermowell. Gen2 of the caps/kegs will have both ball lock fittings on the cap as well as the thermowell. I just need to make the first one and confirm my spacing for the ball lock bases.

I do that setup for all but the 50L keg that I converted. That had a 4" TC ferrule welded into the top and the matching cap has both fittings and thermowell.

The gas fitting makes it easy to ferment under pressure. Which I did for the first time with the latest batch. I'll also be doing that for the batches we're brewing on Sunday. That will be a SMaSH (9 gallon into kegs) and hard cider.

I've also used this setup to transfer via CO2 push. Makes things a hell of a lot easier to shift finished fermentation into either serving/carbonating kegs, into an aging vessel or even bottles. I also don't move the fermenter an inch from when the yeast goes in until it's getting transferred.

I've seen vids of those plastic pressure fermenters and will pass. Clear plastic for something to brew in doesn't do a thing for me. If anything, it means you have to keep them in complete darkness until going to bottle/keg. Not to mention they have a limited use lifespan. Stainless will last longer than I will.

I'm hoping/planning to move sometime next year (hopefully before summer). It's also my hope that I'll be able to setup a larger brew system (currently three 1/2 barrel keggles) or at least make it so that I can easily/safely brew inside.

I did make a fermentation chamber for the brewing reboot. Only because the basement where I currently live went up about 20F for this summer compared with past years. I sized it so that my stainless fermenters will easily fit even with the extra items install on top. Including the spunding valve setup.

So, I would say "HELL YES!" to using a stainless fermenter. Which one you use depends on you, really. I would avoid going with a corny keg though, since you're get lower finished product volumes from it. Get a tall pony keg and you can easily get 6 gallons of finished beer (which I do). There are options for other fermenters that will give you solid results. I would advise going with something rated to 15psi if you ever think you'll want to try fermenting under pressure. Having something that's limited to <5 PSI will suck for that aspect. Which means you won't be able to skinflint on the fermenter.

 

[Miraculix]

I was facing the same question and bought a hdpe speidel. I fill it directly with the hot wort and had no problems until now. The thing is air tight and easy to clean and relatively cheap. All thumbs up!