Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Stand]

I might catch flack for this, but as a though, how hard would it be to do no-chill in a conical? I was thinking it might save me a ton of time and I could pull wort from actual batch to make a yeast starter and save time on that as well. Maybe throw a box-fan in my upright freezer to cool until it gets close to room temperature and then turning on my freezer to hit pitch-temp.

Anybody tried doing this? Only problem I can think of is that I'd have to leave it unsealed to cool to avoid a vacuum, although I could attach CO2 to avoid this . . . which comes with its own problems I realize. I know those no-chill folks who use cubes fill them entirely to avoid this and have more flexible vessels, so that might make it a no-go.

 

[Nate R]

I might catch flack for this, but as a though, how hard would it be to do no-chill in a conical? I was thinking it might save me a ton of time and I could pull wort from actual batch to make a yeast starter and save time on that as well. Maybe throw a box-fan in my upright freezer to cool until it gets close to room temperature and then turning on my freezer to hit pitch-temp.

Anybody tried doing this? Only problem I can think of is that I'd have to leave it unsealed to cool to avoid a vacuum, although I could attach CO2 to avoid this . . . which comes with its own problems I realize. I know those no-chill folks who use cubes fill them entirely to avoid this and have more flexible vessels, so that might make it a no-go.

Great question!! I had the same idea before, but never tried it....
Until a few brews ago, when my chiller died. I used my blichmann cornical ( 'cause i bought it when i was young and stupid) so i had to move it into my upright freezer. I had to keep adding massive C02 to prevent suck in (luckily the cornical can handle 50+psi!).
Here's my experience:
-i litetally burned myself several times. The stainless gets hot and stays hot. Really really hot.
-the wort was slightly carbonated after the 16 hours or so i had it IN A DEEP UPRIGHT FREEZER. Yes- even in a super cold deep freezer it took a long time to get to pitch temp.
-i bet it would have gone faster with the cooling coils of the CF, but you better watch the psi as it only handles 15 at a time. Note- this assumes you have glycol. No way an ice chest would be worth it.
- the batch came out otherwise ok.

So- i am glad i saved my batch. I am glad i got to try it. I would never do it again.

Ymmv

 

[Yesfan]

I was thinking about no chilling as well. I don't think I'd go full bore and dump the wort in after flame out, but maybe cool the wort down half way, dump in and seal the conical, and let it set in my garage all night chilling. I hate winter, but I love how much more quickly I can get to pitching temps this time of year.

My CF10 is on her maiden voyage. I brewed 10 gallons of amber ale earlier this morning.

 

[Yesfan]

I'm 2 days into fermentation. US-05 was sputtering, 12 hours after pitch. I plan on dry-hopping this batch with about 5 oz of Comet. What I would like to do is pressurize the last part of fermentation. Do I need to wait another day or two? I thought about swapping the blow-off for my spunding valve after I add the hops. The plan I have is:

2/2 Was Brew Day. Pitched yeast late afternoon at 70F.
2/3 5AM, Fermentation well under way (about 12 hours after pitch).
2/5 4-5PM, add dry hops, close off conical, set spunding valve to 10psi
2/9 Maybe move to the garage for a semi cold crash, this depends on where the gravity is.

I'm not trying to rush this beer. Those dates aren't set into stone. I'm guessing US-05 will start to slow up in another day or two so what I would like to do is take advantage of preserving as much hop aroma as I can while taking advantage of the conical's ability to condition the beer. Also, my garage is usually about 10 degrees cooler than my basement. I know 50+ degrees isn't prime cold crashing temps, but figure that would be better than the mid 60s. I'm going to move it out there anyway when I go to keg this batch.

 

[Stand]

I can't see anything wrong with that procedure, but depending on how long you intend to leave the hops in the beer, you might start to pull vegetal/grassy flavors.

I have never tested or tasted that though, and I suspect it isn't a huge problem unless you leave them for a very long time at a higher temp. I have from time to time thrown hops in the keg and left them without issue.

Others could better speak to that.

 

[Yesfan]

I've had a few beers where I let the dry hops (Centennial) go for about 2-3 weeks in the fermenter at room temps, and really didn't notice anything grassy tasting. I'm not going to chalk that up as scientific evidence though either. I like to err on the side of caution. If a majority comes to the conclusion a certain process doesn't work for a certain application, then I usually side with the majority.

Right now I'm watching for signs of the yeast to slow. I'm anticipating with the dates I threw out there, that may happen. When it does, I plan on trying to time it to where I have 3-5 days for dry hopping and still have the beer half way conditioned before kegging. This is my first trial run with the CF10, so at the worst, I'm looking at having to wait an extra day or two to carb up the beer after it's kegged. No biggie though, baby steps, right?

Really, I'm more 'worried' about the current keg of amber lasting long enough until I get this 10 gallon batch kegged and carbed.

 

[jturman35]

I have also hopped at day 2-3 and let the beer go 14 days with no issues. Best NEIPA I ever brewed was dry hopped at day 3 and day 12 and keg hops all Citra. 2 months later beer still has massive aroma.

Only time I ever got grassy was from a red ipa that had some keg hops and may have gotten oxidized.

 

[logdrum]

I have also hopped at day 2-3 and let the beer go 14 days with no issues. Best NEIPA I ever brewed was dry hopped at day 3 and day 12 and keg hops all Citra. 2 months later beer still has massive aroma.

Only time I ever got grassy was from a red ipa that had some keg hops and may have gotten oxidized.

Do you dump the first charge prior to the second?

 

[ZmannR2]

I might catch flack for this, but as a though, how hard would it be to do no-chill in a conical? .

Every brew I do is chilled to about 100 degrees or so then dumped into the fermenter in my fridge.....i place the probe for my temp controller inside the thermowell and have the fridge turn off once desired temp is reached.....usually pitch the next morning

I have never had issues with having a vacuum....I use the PCV valve so eventually the pressure returns once fermentation kicks in

 

[Nate R]

Hey all... just wanted to share an idea and get some feedback.
During crashing on my cf5, i have always switched the "in" and "out" for the glycol coil per the Spike reccomendations.
However, on my current batch, i did not, and i am getting an easier 36 (which swings as low to 35 and as high as 37.3 with the inkbird). The ambient temp is about the same, and the alcohol is actually my lowdst batch- under 5% vs all others at +6%. I may have an extra 0.5 gallons in there- that is the only variable i can think of that may be different.

Has anyone else noticed this by not switching the coil inputs? Anyone already not changing the inputs?

Just a thought for anyone here trying to get to crash temps that has been having issues.

 

[CodeSection]

Hey all... just wanted to share an idea and get some feedback.
During crashing on my cf5, i have always switched the "in" and "out" for the glycol coil per the Spike reccomendations.
However, on my current batch, i did not, and i am getting an easier 36 (which swings as low to 35 and as high as 37.3 with the inkbird). The ambient temp is about the same, and the alcohol is actually my lowdst batch- under 5% vs all others at +6%. I may have an extra 0.5 gallons in there- that is the only variable i can think of that may be different.

Has anyone else noticed this by not switching the coil inputs? Anyone already not changing the inputs?

Just a thought for anyone here trying to get to crash temps that has been having issues.

I crash well below 40F so I always use Spike's recommendation under 40F. As Spike notes, inversion occurs roughly (~40F) at 40F. With that said, I found it interesting that Grainfather states temp inversion occurs between 34F-40F.

 

[Vale71]

Inversion temperature in distilled water at 1 atm lies very close to 4°C. Like all other temperatures (boiling, freezing and so on) in beer it is influenced by alcohol and residual extract. The higher the FG and ABV the lower it will be, so a range between 1-4°C depending on strength is correct.

That said IMHO convection plays an infinitesimally minor role in our tiny fermenters where direct thermal transmission is more than adequate so I doubt you would notice any actual difference either way. For the record, I don't bother switching inputs as I haven't seen any difference.

 

[itsnotrequired]

cold-crashing my latest batch, i wrap the whole thing in a blanket for insulation. come back the next day and get a blast of beer smell in the brew room, blanket is pretty wet and there is a small puddle of beer in front of the conical. pull the blanket away and notice a small leak from the racking port valve. no leaks at all during fermentation. i'm thinking the cold caused some shrinkage, leak from the seating material on the valve? i've cold crashed dozens of batches and not had this issue before. maybe something wore out?

anyone else have this issue?

 

[eric19312]

OK so how come nobody mentioned how cool it is to ferment with the sight glass? I've not been able to peep at the yeast during active fermentation for years and forgot how much I like watching that. Im only on day 3 of fermentation with first use...it made dumping kettle trub carried over in transfer much easier I'm looking forward to seeing how it helps rest of my process.

 

[eric19312]

cold-crashing my latest batch, i wrap the whole thing in a blanket for insulation. come back the next day and get a blast of beer smell in the brew room, blanket is pretty wet and there is a small puddle of beer in front of the conical. pull the blanket away and notice a small leak from the racking port valve. no leaks at all during fermentation. i'm thinking the cold caused some shrinkage, leak from the seating material on the valve? i've cold crashed dozens of batches and not had this issue before. maybe something wore out?

anyone else have this issue?

I've not seen it but am only at about 5 batches in it. I probably push cold crashing harder than most though. I have brought the beer down to 28.5F in a freezer set to go no colder than 15F. 15F seems too cold and I got some freezing in the dry hops in the cone.

 

[Jag75]

Have you guys seen a spike wort thermometer that you hook up to a cfc ? Kind of like the blichman thrumometer but smaller. I seen a video where someone was using one but I cant find it online .

 

[SEndorf]

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller

 

[Jag75]

@SEndorf - thank you but I dont think it will work with what I have . I have the Grainfather. I will cut the silicone hose and connect to both ends so the wort passes through. Grainfather has the wortometer but I didnt want to have to use a thermometer probe .

Looks like I may just go Blichman thrumometer

 

[mongoose33]

@SEndorf - thank you but I dont think it will work with what I have . I have the Grainfather. I will cut the silicone hose and connect to both ends so the wort passes through. Grainfather has the wortometer but I didnt want to have to use a thermometer probe .

Looks like I may just go Blichman thrumometer

make sure the temperature range suits you; I bought one when I started to put together my electric system, and realized that since I wanted to circulate boiling wort through the CFC to sanitize it, the thrumometer wouldn't work. Not supposed to get that high.

 

[Yesfan]

Well, I racked my first batch out of the conical. A little bit of a learning curb, but was impressed how easy and quick it was to fill two kegs. I made weight measurements of the kegs both empty and full of star-san on a piece of masking tape stuck to the kegs. Each keg is numbered too so they are easily identified if I run into any issue (leak, etc.). The first fill was flawless. I placed an empty keg on my scale, and pushed the beer out of the conical with my co2 tank until the scale was close to the full weight amount. The second keg, I had issues with the hop bag blocking the racking port. I thought it would be better if I bagged the hops like I have with a carboy, instead of dumping them in. This would keep my disconnect from clogging up with a stray pellet during transfer. Nope, had to eventually de-pressurize the conical, open the top, and use sanitized tongs to remove the hop bag.

I'm thinking in the future, I want to get the sight glass and a yeast brink. I have no way to cold crash, so obviously that will have to be addressed before the summer. For those with the sight glass/brink, do you still use the 90 degree elbow? I'm thinking about taking mine out when I go that route. I'd like that gas manifold too.

 

[CodeSection]

..... For those with the sight glass/brink, do you still use the 90 degree elbow? I'm thinking about taking mine out when I go that route. I'd like that gas manifold too.

You will need to have the yeast brink parallel (standing up) to the fermenter regardless if you are injecting through the 2" dump port or through the 1.5" racking port. If you will be injecting spices, tinctures, etc. through the racking port, you will need a TC 1.5" 45 degree elbow. https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri_Clover_Elbow_45_Degree_1.5_Inch.html

If you have extended legs on the fermenter and you do not use Spike's 90 degree elbow so as the dump port shoots straight down, you will not need to use an elbow since you can connect directly to the valve and the yeast brink will standing straight up. If you use Spike's 90 degree elblow so as the dump valve becomes perpendicular to the fermenter, then you will need another 90 degree elbow. https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri_Clover_Elbow_90_Degree_2_Inch.html

 

[Yesfan]

How do you like that sight glass compared to the one Spike offers (assuming that's yours in the pic)?

I like how Spike's is easier to disassemble/reassemble but, if I use it with NorCal's brink, Jay will have to trim the down comber so it will work which will be extra $.

 

[Yesfan]

I might catch flack for this, but as a though, how hard would it be to do no-chill in a conical? I was thinking it might save me a ton of time and I could pull wort from actual batch to make a yeast starter and save time on that as well. Maybe throw a box-fan in my upright freezer to cool until it gets close to room temperature and then turning on my freezer to hit pitch-temp.

Anybody tried doing this? Only problem I can think of is that I'd have to leave it unsealed to cool to avoid a vacuum, although I could attach CO2 to avoid this . . . which comes with its own problems I realize. I know those no-chill folks who use cubes fill them entirely to avoid this and have more flexible vessels, so that might make it a no-go.

Going back to this, what about no chilling in kegs? Then just push the beer into the conical via co2. Oxygenate (with a stone attached to the butterfly valve), then pitch your yeast.

I thought about trying that with my next batch.

 

[CodeSection]

How do you like that sight glass compared to the one Spike offers (assuming that's yours in the pic)?

I like how Spike's is easier to disassemble/reassemble but, if I use it with NorCal's brink, Jay will have to trim the down comber so it will work which will be extra $.

Spike only has 2" as their largest sight glass. I bought Norcal's 3" sight glass as it will hold more than the 2". The larger the sight glass, the less likelihood that you will need to perform multiple injections. Norcal's 4" model looks awesome but then the weight has to be an issue.

BTW, I have never disassembled my sight glass. After use it is rinsed with 140-150F water and then sits in Craft Meister Alkaline Brewer's Wash. There is a thread about sight glasses cleaning procedures where most posters did not disassemble their sight glasses either.

I'm guessing for the price of Jay to modify the down shaft to Spike's 2" sight glass, you might as well just buy Norcal's 3" sight glass. At least that is what I would suggest.

 

[KyleF318is]

Sorry, again.

Forgot to get the hose connectors for the temperature coil. Trying to avoid Spikes shipping cost for a low budget item.

#1) do I need those to connect my hoses?

#2) Is there a quality Amazon version?

#3) What size hose is everyone running if you’re using the temp coil?

Thanks in advance. I’m sure there’s an easy answer but I’m just fumbling around.

Cheers!

 

[CodeSection]

Sorry, again.

Forgot to get the hose connectors for the temperature coil. Trying to avoid Spikes shipping cost for a low budget item.

#1) do I need those to connect my hoses?

#2) Is there a quality Amazon version?

#3) What size hose is everyone running if you’re using the temp coil?

Thanks in advance. I’m sure there’s an easy answer but I’m just fumbling around.

3. 3/8" ID tubing

 

[johnholzer]

Sorry, again.

Forgot to get the hose connectors for the temperature coil. Trying to avoid Spikes shipping cost for a low budget item.

#1) do I need those to connect my hoses?

#2) Is there a quality Amazon version?

#3) What size hose is everyone running if you’re using the temp coil?

Thanks in advance. I’m sure there’s an easy answer but I’m just fumbling around.

Cheers!

Spike’s are 1/2” to 3/8”, I believe. I looked for alternatives on Amazon for the connectors and tubing insulation, but went with Spike’s in the end out of sheer convenience and minimal to no cost savings going another route.

Do you *need* them? No, not really. You could slide the tubing directly on to the SS tubing, but you’d risk them kinking.

 

[CodeSection]

Spike’s are 1/2” to 3/8”, I believe. I looked for alternatives on Amazon for the connectors and tubing insulation, but went with Spike’s in the end out of sheer convenience and minimal to no cost savings going another route.

Do you *need* them? No, not really. You could slide the tubing directly on to the SS tubing, but you’d risk them kinking.

To clarify, 1/2" ID tubing is really not necessary. Spike uses 3/8" ID tubing which matches the coil's 3/8" ID. The OD is 1/2"

https://spikebrewing.com/collections/conical-accessories/products/insulated-tubing

 

[johnholzer]

To clarify, 1/2" ID tubing is really not necessary. Spike uses 3/8" ID tubing which matches the coil's 3/8" ID. The OD is 1/2"

https://spikebrewing.com/collections/conical-accessories/products/insulated-tubing

Yes, but the connectors are 1/2” to 3/8” reduced.

https://spikebrewing.com/collections/conical-accessories/products/temp-coil-quick-connect-fittings-1

 

[hezagenius]

Are anyone else's leg extensions crooked? I couldn't get any of mine to screw in straight and I had to force the legs to line up with the stabilizing shelf. Not giving me good vibes when I'm going to fill it soon.

 

[jekeane]

Sorry, again.

Forgot to get the hose connectors for the temperature coil. Trying to avoid Spikes shipping cost for a low budget item.

#1) do I need those to connect my hoses?

#2) Is there a quality Amazon version?

#3) What size hose is everyone running if you’re using the temp coil?

Thanks in advance. I’m sure there’s an easy answer but I’m just fumbling around.

Cheers!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016Q57TCO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is what I bought on amazon and I got slide on QD elbows and barbs from lowes.

 

[mongoose33]

Are anyone else's leg extensions crooked? I couldn't get any of mine to screw in straight and I had to force the legs to line up with the stabilizing shelf. Not giving me good vibes when I'm going to fill it soon.

How solid does it feel? If you want to test it, just fill it with water to whatever level you need, and see how it is. No reason to wonder if it'll work; test it.

I'm better at maneuvering my CF10 when full than when I first got it--in fact, I put a heavy weight on the bottom shelf to help stabilize it.

Even so, when you move it, hold the legs where they attach to the conical body, and push the conical with your foot on the shelf.

If the legs are REALLY off kilter, take a pic and send it to Spike showing the problem; their support is really good.

 

[Gozie Boy]

How solid does it feel? If you want to test it, just fill it with water to whatever level you need, and see how it is. No reason to wonder if it'll work; test it.

I'm better at maneuvering my CF10 when full than when I first got it--in fact, I put a heavy weight on the bottom shelf to help stabilize it.

Even so, when you move it, hold the legs where they attach to the conical body, and push the conical with your foot on the shelf.

If the legs are REALLY off kilter, take a pic and send it to Spike showing the problem; their support is really good.

+1 on weights - I put a 50# hand weight on my brace to help lower the CoG. Has anyone tried out the new (wider) base plate that Spike recently came out with? Of course it must be better, but I don't know if it is a meaningful advancement.

 

[eric19312]

+1 on weights - I put a 50# hand weight on my brace to help lower the CoG. Has anyone tried out the new (wider) base plate that Spike recently came out with? Of course it must be better, but I don't know if it is a meaningful advancement.

I just added the shorty leg extensions onto my CF15 so I could add the sight glass. Glad as hell I'm not trying to move this thing around on wheels. I used the bracing shelf but it's still a bit scary just attaching/removing a TC barb fitting from the dump valve. My hat is off to you guys who are getting comfortable rolling full but mine is staying put.

 

[Jag75]

I roll mine like mongoose does . My foot on the bottom shelf and move in small increments lol. I have tile floors and some are uneven. I also make sure the triangle is pointed away from me .

 

[mongoose33]

+1 on weights - I put a 50# hand weight on my brace to help lower the CoG. Has anyone tried out the new (wider) base plate that Spike recently came out with? Of course it must be better, but I don't know if it is a meaningful advancement.

I wish I had that new base plate; I'm confident it would help a great deal in terms of stability.

Only problem is it's $75....and then I'd have a useless smaller base plate.

I've considered getting a piece of 3/16 or 1/4" sheet steel, cutting to size, adding holes, painting it, then using that instead.

 

[hezagenius]

Does anyone transfer to a keg using the bottom port?

I put a sight glass on the bottom to make yeast dumping easier, but now I'm wondering if it makes sense to use the bottom port to transfer, too. It would eliminate messing with rotating the racking arm.

 

[Jag75]

I have to new base plate . I never had the original one so I cant speak of it . Its supportive but these things are still top heavy imo.

 

[Vale71]

Does anyone transfer to a keg using the bottom port?

I put a sight glass on the bottom to make yeast dumping easier, but now I'm wondering if it makes sense to use the bottom port to transfer, too. It would eliminate messing with rotating the racking arm.

If you do that you can expect significant amounts of yeast being transferred. There is always yeast sticking to the cone walls and as the cone starts to empty they will loose buoyancy and start to drop. If you use the racking port with the racking arm they should slide past it towards the dump valve and you should be able to avoid picking any up. If you transfer through the dump port then there is no way you can avoid transfering this yeast as well.

 

[Nate R]

Does anyone transfer to a keg using the bottom port?

I put a sight glass on the bottom to make yeast dumping easier, but now I'm wondering if it makes sense to use the bottom port to transfer, too. It would eliminate messing with rotating the racking arm.

I was cheap and stupid and did not pick up the racking arm when i got my cf5.
I have transffereed several batches via the bottom 2" port.
I would only reccomend it if you:
-cold crash
-dump yeast and dump dry hops before racking
-use a smaller amount of dry hops- like 2 oz/5 gallon or so. A NE ipa is just too much dry hop material.

Any pilsner, pale ale, etc. that i racked via the 2" bottom port came out clear. The IPA's ive done with dry hops have a minimal amount of "gunk" when the keg kicks.
The one time i tried with a ne hazy, i gave up and used the racking port.