Spike Conical- observations and best practices

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Contacted Spike about this and they are sending me a new pump.


Are you using the carb stone or sight glass? I bought the CF5 to do five gallon batches and I'm not sure if I'll be able to get five gallons with the accessories and after dumping. Should have sized up to the CF10.

I was considering racking from the dump port but that was not recommended by Spike as there will be still be debris even after dumping.

The racking arm does look like it would reach down and get the remaining beer from the bottom portion of the cone. Ordered one to test.

I am using the carb stone but not the glass. You barely waste anything when you take the carb stone off.

My main issue was just way too much hop sediment and I think I dumped too much. I will probably order the racking arm too actually. Definitely don't think getting five will be an issue I just have to fine tune the process. It's definitely a learning experience each time.
 
Update on using ice for temp coil(lager).

Ambient temp 53, ~3 gallons water and ice in a 10g cooler. It will bring the temp down as low as 47 or so, however you need to add ice each day:(. I've used combinations of cubes and 8x8" blocks. Kind of a PITA.

I have a small hop freezer I'm thinking of just adding a small cooler to with glycol and pump it out some holes in the lid.
 
Update on using ice for temp coil(lager).

Ambient temp 53, ~3 gallons water and ice in a 10g cooler. It will bring the temp down as low as 47 or so, however you need to add ice each day:(. I've used combinations of cubes and 8x8" blocks. Kind of a PITA.

I have a small hop freezer I'm thinking of just adding a small cooler to with glycol and pump it out some holes in the lid.

I have heard people tying the freezer thing saying it didn't work so well. That's what I was going to do but ended up going the DIY glycol chiller route instead. I built it for under 200 and it's performing like a champ. Doing a lager at 50 right now and the chiller hardly has to run.

Got it down to 36 to cold crash and carb with ease as well.
 
Did my first closed transfer. I filled two 5G and two 3G ball locks. It went smoothly so I am happy with the process. The kegs were first filled with Starsan and then pushed out with CO2. The kegs were left pressurized to few pounds. When transfering spunding valve on the kegs gas out post, set so I could barely hear the gas flow out. Beer slowly filled through the liquid out post.
First time doing this so I had a couple concerns. Will the amount of starsan left in the keg affect the flavor? I sort of doubt it. Next time I do this I will get a tare weight on each keg and fill by weight. No humidity here this time of year. I expected to see a condensation line on the keg but there was none. I kept my hand on the keg and could feel about how full it was. Beer was at 33F.
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I have heard people tying the freezer thing saying it didn't work so well. That's what I was going to do but ended up going the DIY glycol chiller route instead. I built it for under 200 and it's performing like a champ. Doing a lager at 50 right now and the chiller hardly has to run.

Got it down to 36 to cold crash and carb with ease as well.
Thanks Philly.

AC unit and cooler I take it?
 
First time doing this so I had a couple concerns. Will the amount of starsan left in the keg affect the flavor? I sort of doubt it. Next time I do this I will get a tare weight on each keg and fill by weight. No humidity here this time of year. I expected to see a condensation line on the keg but there was none. I kept my hand on the keg and could feel about how full it was. Beer was at 33F.
View attachment 564631
I wouldn't be concerned. I've left quite a bit of starsan in kegs before with no ill effects. I only used distilled water now, as the minerals in my well water make the solution cloudy. I think it breaks down the surfactant, not 100% sure.
 
Did my first closed transfer. I filled two 5G and two 3G ball locks. It went smoothly so I am happy with the process. The kegs were first filled with Starsan and then pushed out with CO2. The kegs were left pressurized to few pounds. When transfering spunding valve on the kegs gas out post, set so I could barely hear the gas flow out. Beer slowly filled through the liquid out post.
First time doing this so I had a couple concerns. Will the amount of starsan left in the keg affect the flavor? I sort of doubt it. Next time I do this I will get a tare weight on each keg and fill by weight. No humidity here this time of year. I expected to see a condensation line on the keg but there was none. I kept my hand on the keg and could feel about how full it was. Beer was at 33F.
View attachment 564631

Something I do when purging kegs is pressurize them then attach a Liquid Out QD (plus short tubing) to the keg to blow out any residual star-san. A little gentle shaking of the keg and virtually all of it is blown out. I stop before losing all the pressure, meaning it's still CO2-purged.
 
Has anyone used the cf10 for five gallon batches with a glycol chiller? Wondering how the temp holds with so much head space.

I want to get another conical at some point and was thinking about going for the cf10 even though I'll be doing mostly five gallon batches.
 
Has anyone used the cf10 for five gallon batches with a glycol chiller? Wondering how the temp holds with so much head space.

I want to get another conical at some point and was thinking about going for the cf10 even though I'll be doing mostly five gallon batches.
I did a 5 gallon batch in the cf15 and had no problem. I think it was about 6 gallons in the fermenter but it had no problems cooling. I just moved the thermowell to the sampling port. Did behave any different than the larger batches. Cold crashed and carbonated in the tank.
 
I did a 5 gallon batch in the cf15 and had no problem. I think it was about 6 gallons in the fermenter but it had no problems cooling. I just moved the thermowell to the sampling port. Did behave any different than the larger batches. Cold crashed and carbonated in the tank.

Awesome thanks!!
 
Has anyone used the cf10 for five gallon batches with a glycol chiller? Wondering how the temp holds with so much head space.

I want to get another conical at some point and was thinking about going for the cf10 even though I'll be doing mostly five gallon batches.
All the time (about 6 gallons into the fermenter). No issues.
 
Question about the Temp Control kit, in particular the cooling coil:

I've yet to use mine, probably this weekend, but wondered about how the cooling coil affects the yeast. If I use a very cold fluid, say 35 degrees or thereabouts, the yeast near the coil will presumably be shocked into dormancy--or at least I'd wonder if that's possible.

Or, is there so much convection going on during fermentation that it doesn't matter?
 
I as well, but the thermowell placement means you have to relocate (swap it) it down where the sampling port is located or it just barely gets covered. That's the only downside I have seen so far.
I’ve done the same. I am using a 1.5” blank in the top port, and use the racking port for samples.
 
Has anyone used the cf10 for five gallon batches with a glycol chiller? Wondering how the temp holds with so much head space.

I want to get another conical at some point and was thinking about going for the cf10 even though I'll be doing mostly five gallon batches.
Id go with the larger conical. Theres a lot of waste in a nanobrewing environment because using equipment and processes like this unfortunately waste more product to ensure a better product. I would scale your recipes up to around 6 gallon and plan on loosing a gallon or so, that way you can effectively dump all the dead yeast and trub without worry... there is a point of diminishing returns when scaling down where a system and process developed for much larger volumes, starts to lose its value.



We just purchased 4 120gallon conicals for brewing 90 gallons of finished beer and everyone tells us the 110gallon conicals (hold 120gallons total) is as small as we want to go for that batch size. I believe our 3bbl brite tanks are larger ironically.
 
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5.5 gallons.

I don't have the racking arm but I'm honestly not sure how much that'd help. It would help not get as much sludge in the keg but not for yield.

I am going to bag my dry hops next time. I did a stout in there and yielded just about five gallons so I think the loose hops is the issue.
I have the racking arm, and unless you are leaving the trub in the conical the entire time it is useless. The arm does not go below the bottom of the racking port, so if you do dump the tub, your going to leave quite a bit of beer I the bottom of the conical. If you do leave the trub, it does let you adjust the arm up to get above the trub, assuming you have that much.
 
Is there any issue leaving the carb stone on with pressure more than 24 hrs or will that risk over carbing?
 
Is there any issue leaving the carb stone on with pressure more than 24 hrs or will that risk over carbing?
It's the temp of the beer and the level of pressure set by the regulator that determines the amount of co2 the beer will absorb, not time. The stone just allows the co2 going in to be smaller bubbles and absorbed faster into the beer.
 
OK, this is long, and there are pics, but for anyone who's contemplating temp control using the freezer compartment of a refrigerator...this may give you some ideas.

Just bought a Spike CF10. Also bought the temp control kit. Seems a little pricey for what it is, but on the other hand, it's designed to fit.

The question was how to enable cold water/cold solution chilling ability. I'm tapped out--I can't afford, at the moment, any kind of glycol chiller. Certainly not a Penguin, and not even the ones for aquariums. So it has to be done with either icewater in a cooler or using a cold-solution reservoir in a freezer.

I chose the freezer option.

One issue is what kind of vessel will hold the solution. I have a gallon of Glycol, mixed w/ 2 gallons of water...I need at least three gallon capacity. But I wanted a larger vessel.

I found a plastic tub with 18 quarts of capacity at the home store; I felt that would give me enough capacity for the 3 gallons of solution, plus I wanted the thinnest rectangular area possible so it would shed heat as readily as possible. I set it on two half-bricks to lift it off the bottom of the freezer so cold air can circulate on all sides.

What you see in the pics below is a somewhat smaller tub I used for a trial run with just water. Actually screwed up and it froze on me at one point, had to add hot water to thaw the ice in the lines. C'est la vie. The tub I have includes a lid, into which I cut a slot to allow for capping the reservoir. Easy to remove. Not sure if it makes more sense to leave it off in the freezer or not. Probably try it with first.

************

I chose the location on top of the fridge--which looks strange actually as you'd think the best place would be on a corner or the edge--because it allowed the lines to drop straight down to where the pump is. There's enough resistance to bending in those lines that I felt the pump would likely end up cockeyed if the lines were not dropped straight in. I could have, I suppose, found some sort of thin metal I could have bent to force a bend that would have worked, but this seemed simpler.

I bought a sheet-metal drill bit that maxed out at 3/4" diameter, drilled the two holes you see. I did the usual drill a small hole and probe w/ a piece of coat hanger to ensure there were no lines in the way....I would have bet you $500 there weren't, but if I'd hit one, finding another refrigerator of the same size, etc. would have been nigh impossible--and pricey.

The neoprene covering the vinyl tubing is about 3/4" in diameter--but it also has a little webbing piece connecting the two. This is good, it keeps the two lines together, BUT.....how do you drill a kind of figure-8 hole with a "waist" as well? I drilled the two holes and used my dremel tool to essentially connect the two holes. With the narrow waist between the holes I just couldn't get the tubing through there--it caught on the inside edges of the hole leading into the freezer compartment. So I widened them up into essentially an oval. You can see that in the one pic showing the extra space where the tubes go into the top--there's an arrow pointing to it.

As it turns out, that was a good thing--it provides a space through which the power line for the pump can pass, and the other side for the temp probe from the inkbird. Sometimes you get lucky. :)

****************

So, all that was left was seeing if it worked. I added 6+ gallons of Star-San solution to the conical, turned on the heater; found that it could take the temp up about 4 degrees in a half hour--which is just fine to keep things warm in the winter, or raise the temp for a diacetyl rest or just to let the yeast finish. So that works.

Then it was the cooling part. Installed the cooling coil, connected the lines, filled the reservoir with water, turned on the pump....and water starts spraying from one of the John Guest fittings connecting the tubing to the coil. Turn off, reconnect, turn on--and things are better. But one is still dripping. Disconnect, reconnect--I think I know how to do that now--and got it to work with no leaks.

The pump runs water through at a pretty good pace. All that will matter is whether there's enough thermal mass in the cooling solution--and recovery capacity with the freezer--to run this down to cold crash levels. We'll see. In the meantime, I have a way to do normal temp control that cost me $6 for the plastic tub and $10 for the drill bit. And $30 for the Propylene Glycol.

********

I was ready to brew today and then realized I forgot to bring the garden hose inside. It was in the teens last night, so I have a hose which is 50 feet of coiled ice. Maybe later...

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Fwiw I have the racking arm on my cf15 and it only leaves .5 of a litre behind. I never measured without the arm however
 
No sight glass just the included elbow and butterfly valve. Its actually more like .7 a litre now that I think back
 
An update to the method and pics from above:

Last night I added 6 gallons of star-san solution ("wort") to the CF10 conical, and ran the temp up to 70 degrees. The heater does a nice job with the smaller batches, I'm sure it can handle 11 gallons.

I also mixed up 3/4 gallon Glycol and 2 gallons RO water. I put them in the reservoir and then let an Inkbird take that mix down to 28 degrees.

Then at 5pm, I hooked up the pump to the Spike temp controller and set it at a 32 degree target--cold crashing from 70 degrees in other words. Ambient temp was 55 degrees. Off it went.

At 75 minutes (6:15pm), the "wort" had dropped to 59.8, the glycol/water mix rose to 48. Since the mix is just about half the volume of the "wort," that makes sense. I let the system continue until it was about time to call it a night.

At 6 hours 40 minutes, the temp of the "wort" had dropped to 43.9, and the freezer was catching up--less of the chill from the mix was being transferred to the wort. Pics below.

I don't doubt that had I let the system continue overnight that I would have reached 32 degrees or pretty close. Again, a 6-gallon batch in this case, not 11. A double batch would have been slower. How does this compare to a normal "crash" with my ferm chambers? A 5.5 gallon batch typically took about 20-24 hours to finally reach 32 degrees. I considered that reasonable, as the closer the wort gets to 32, the slower the progress.

*************

A few comments and observations:

1. I took the lid off the reservoir halfway through. I'm sure it works better when the air can circulate across the top of the reservoir.

2. There is a bunch of protrusions sticking out of the insulating neoprene jacket on the conical. I'm talking about the handles, sampling port, racking port, yeast dump port, temp probe thermowell, legs, and the lid. Each one acts like a radiator, in this case picking up heat from the outside. Early on, that was OK as the "wort" was warmer than ambient. But later, those have the reverse effect, in effect creating a greater thermal mass the Glycol mix must chill.

I'm already considering how to insulate those protrusions. I think i can get pipe insulation that would work around the legs; I have some sheet styrofoam from packages sent me I might be able to make into insulated boxes I could slide over things like the racking valve, sampling port, and so on.

And I'm thinking about some sort of blanket/quilt sort of thing I could wrap around the entire conical. Something like movers's blankets that would completely cover the conical down to the floor. This time of year, with ambient at 55, this is not a big deal. In the dead of summer when ambient rises to 80 degrees or higher, the chilling won't be as effective. I need to find a way to isolate the conical from ambient.

3. I'm wondering if I can find some sort of stainless "fins" I can drop into the reservoir that would stick up above the liquid surface and provide greater surface area to radiate heat and pick up chill from the freezer. Frankly, a stainless steel reservoir would work better than plastic, and better yet would be one that had fins welded to it. Anyone have an idea about this?

The early returns are that this system will work for 5-gallon batches. Obviously it will be slower on 10-gallon batches, but if I can find a way to insulate/isolate the conical from ambient, it will be much better.

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Anyone else with a DIY glycol chiller have an issue with it over shooting the temp you set it to? I have it set to 30 right now but it usually losers another 8 degrees to 22 when the power cuts off the AC. Any way to prevent that? It hasn't really been an issue so far but I'm worried about freezing around the coils.
 
Anyone else with a DIY glycol chiller have an issue with it over shooting the temp you set it to? I have it set to 30 right now but it usually losers another 8 degrees to 22 when the power cuts off the AC. Any way to prevent that? It hasn't really been an issue so far but I'm worried about freezing around the coils.

What is your glycol temp set to? Also any reason for trying to chill to 30F? We recommend crashing to 36-38F. I'm assuming you're glycol is set lower than 22F. The issue is probably ice forming on/around the coil and causing the temp to fall even after the pump is off.
 
What is your glycol temp set to? Also any reason for trying to chill to 30F? We recommend crashing to 36-38F. I'm assuming you're glycol is set lower than 22F. The issue is probably ice forming on/around the coil and causing the temp to fall even after the pump is off.

Sorry for the confusion I was trying to crash to 34 and my glycol chiller is set to 30. It's chilling the glycol down to 30 and cutting off the AC but then the glycol is going all the way down to 22 after the ac is off.

The temp inside the fermenter is getting to 36 easy then getting stuck there. I'll probably just turn it up to 36 and call it a day because that seems to work well.
 
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Sorry for the confusion I was trying to crash to 34 and my glycol chiller is set to 30. It's chilling the glycol down to 30 and cutting off the AC but then the glycol is going all the way down to 22 after the ac is off.

Got it, makes sense. We keep our glycol at ~25F when crashing and ~30F when just maintaining.
 
used my conical for the first time this weekend, some thoughts:
  • i have the leg extensions and even with the bracing plate, it is too wobbly for my comfort. i screwed two small 2x4s to the wall in my brew area, one about 8" off the ground and the other about 30". i then pushed the 'rear' leg of the conical against the 2x4s and used 1.25" pvc conduit clamps to secure the conical legs to the 2x4s with screws. there is still a little play between the clamp and the leg but this is a safety measure, it isn't like i will be banging the conical around. i feel a lot better about it not tipping over. i have the cip ball so i really shouldn't need to unscrew the clamps and move the conical very often.
  • one bad deal with the above is that my existing hose wasn't long enough to get from the chiller to the conical! not a spike deficiency, my own stupid fault for not checking first. much cursing as i had to rework my cooling water houses and use some clamps to get everything to work.
  • when i was previously test filling with water, i had a small leak at the racking valve. i chalked it up to bad seating. it has now had wort in it for about 45 hours, not a single leak.
  • i filled to the 12 gal mark and still had some krausen come out of the blow off. glad i decided to use a tube rather than the gas manifold, i suspect it would have gotten all gummed up. krausen blow has stopped so i'll swap to the manifold when i dry hop.
  • if you can, spring for the sight glass. i have it in a vertical orientation right before the dump valve, very cool to see the fermentation. i'm doing a neipa so already have some hops in there and you can see them bobbing around in the glass. actually, the glass was full of compacted hops after a few hours. i was worried they had all settled out and were 'stuck' down there but the fermenting beer below 'pushed' the hop slug upward until it broke up. the process has repeated several times.
  • i have the temp set to 67 and it is holding very steady with minimal heating/cooling required. i have the insulating jacket and with the brew area at about 60 degrees right now, it is humming along nicely. i have a glycol chiller and the it only ran twice that i can tell, for a short period. since the basement is so cool, i actually turned the chiller off and the pump ran a couple times with the cooler liquid, brought the temp down.
  • even with the cooling coil in there, the 4" top opening was very handy for dumping hops in. i dumped out of a mason jat and didn't need a funnel.
  • haven't used the sample valve yet but looking forward to turning a valve rather than working a wine thief to get a sample.
a couple concerns:
  • temp readout will wildly jump around every once in a while. i was holding steady at 68.8 when it shot up to 71.5 and turned on the glycol pump. it held there for a couple seconds and then dropped to 66 something, turning on the heater. a few seconds later, back to 68.8 and stayed there. is the controller running some type of calibration cycle? testing the heat/cool relays? maybe i have a defective unit? practically, not an issue for now but seems odd.
  • still getting a mild shock when the heating blanket turns on and i touch metal surfaces on the conical. i don't feel it with my bare hands but rather on sensitive skin areas, like the inside of my wrist or the tip of my nose. this doesn't seem right. is there an inside/outside to the blanket? could i have it on 'backwards'? doesn't seem likely. also, heat only comes out of one third of the heater. in other words, only a portion of the cone section has heat on it. it still heats but seems like it should be heating all the way around.
this is my first conical and overall, it is going well, just those couple glitchy things i mentioned. i am going to reach out to spike directly about the controller/heater issue and will let everyone know what they say.
 
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used my conical for the first time this weekend, some thoughts:
  • i have the leg extensions and even with the bracing plate, it is too wobbly for my comfort. i screwed two small 2x4s to the wall in my brew area, one about 8" off the ground and the other about 30". i then pushed the 'rear' leg of the conical against the 2x4s and used 1.25" pvc conduit clamps to secure the conical legs to the 2x4s with screws. there is still a little play between the clamp and the leg but this is a safety measure, it isn't like i will be banging the conical around. i feel a lot better about it not tipping over. i have the cip ball so i really shouldn't need to unscrew the clamps and move the conical very often.
I have some small lead ingots in a coffee can. I put those on the back of the bottom shelf and it help stabilizes the unit as most of the protrusions make it front-heavy.

But it's still a little wobbly.
  • when i was previously test filling with water, i had a small leak at the racking valve. i chalked it up to bad seating. it has now had wort in it for about 45 hours, not a single leak.
I had a few little leaks, pressure and liquid at the beginning. All of them were solved by tightening down the TC clamps. @Morrey suggested I use a nut driver to tighten the clamps, and that turned out to be a terrific idea.
  • if you can, spring for the sight glass. i have it in a vertical orientation right after the dump valve, very cool to see the fermentation. i'm doing a neipa so already have some hops in there and you can see them bobbing around in the glass. actually, the glass was full of compacted hops after a few hours. i was worried they had all settled out and were 'stuck' down there but the fermenting beer below 'pushed' the hop slug upward until it broke up. the process has repeated several times.
I have my sight glass before the dump valve. Not sure how you're seeing anything in the sight glass if the dump valve is between the conical and sight glass.

a couple concerns:
  • temp readout will wildly jump around every ponce in a while. i was holding steady at 68.8 when it shot up to 71.5 and turned on the glycol pump. it held there for a couple seconds and then dropped to 66 something, turning on the heater. a few seconds later, back to 68.8 and stayed there. is the controller running some type of calibration cycle? testing the heat/cool relays? maybe i have a defective unit? practically, not an issue for now but seems odd.
A couple times mine has been a little wonky. Not sure why.

  • still getting a mild shock when the heating blanket turns on and i touch metal surfaces on the conical. i don't feel it with my bare hands but rather on sensitive skin areas, like the inside of my wrist or the tip of my nose. this doesn't seem right. is there an inside/outside to the blanket? could i have it on 'backwards'? doesn't seem likely. also, heat only comes out of one third of the heater. in other words, only a portion of the cone section has heat on it. it still heats but seems like it should be heating all the way around.
I haven't had any shocks, but mine doesn't seem to heat all the way around either.
 
I have my sight glass before the dump valve. Not sure how you're seeing anything in the sight glass if the dump valve is between the conical and sight glass.

bah, typo on my part, sight glass is definitely before the dump valve. fixed my post above.

interesting that others are seeing temp jump around. i really wonder if the unit is running some type of diagnostic at that time. i have a separate inkbird controller and can't say i have witnessed the temp display jumping around.
 
i e-mailed spike this morning about the controller/heater issue, they got back to me this afternoon. they absolutely agreed the heater giving me a shock was a problem and offered up a free replacement without hesitation. i can't say enough good things about their customer service.
 
Has anyone used the carb stone to oxygenate yet? Is it easy to put a ball lock connection on an O2 tank?
With just a regulator and some tubing it is easy. I probably wouldn't leave it hooked up through fermentation though. Probably remove and clean after oxygenation and reattach for carbonation. You could leave it but I'd fear yeast and hops settling on it and causing problems.
 
With just a regulator and some tubing it is easy. I probably wouldn't leave it hooked up through fermentation though. Probably remove and clean after oxygenation and reattach for carbonation. You could leave it but I'd fear yeast and hops settling on it and causing problems.

How would you remove it? Isn't it supposed to go on the sampling port? Or would you attach it to the outside of the racking valve?

FWIW, I just brewed w/ mine and I just used a long wand through the top of the fermenter to oxygenate.
 
I believe that it's intended destination is on the racking port outside the butterfly valve. Otherwise you would have to leave it on the whole time, unless you had a butterfly on the sampling port too. I too just do the wand through the top for simplicity but if you didn't have one you could use the carbonation stone.
 
I believe that it's intended destination is on the racking port outside the butterfly valve. Otherwise you would have to leave it on the whole time, unless you had a butterfly on the sampling port too. I too just do the wand through the top for simplicity but if you didn't have one you could use the carbonation stone.

Yeah I attach it to the butterfly valve on the racking port.

I don't have a wand so that's why I was thinking about just utilizing the carb stone. Looking at options it might just be easier to get a wand though.
 
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