Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[hagmanngr]

I put the leg extensions on mine, and I really like being able to work on the unit higher off the floor, but that does really make it top heavy. I can easily see me knocking it over if I’m not careful. I have it bungied to a wall. It’s probably somewhat obvious but thought I would mention for those thinking about going that way.

I make sure to pull mine backwards when I need to move it. Seems to want to tip forward more than back

 

[hagmanngr]

I'm struggling with closed pressure transfers on my CF5 (I apologize as I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the 67 pages of this topic, but I couldn't find it. Could be I'm a poor searcher) I've done them successfully on my SS Brewtech, but I never get a flow going on the CF5. First I thought it was dry hopping as my first failures were IPAs, but yesterday my Doppel Helles wouldn't go, so I had to do the old fashioned way of tub in the keg. I had cold crashed to 35 degrees for 2 days. I also noticed some trub in the racking port when cleaning, is the issue too much trub? How would I avoid that? Even if I dumped, some would settle in that port. Any ideas?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

What psi are you putting to the cf5? What position do you have your racking arm at?

 

[hagmanngr]

I had it around 5psi, racking arm all the way open.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

5psi should be good, I mean the racking arm inside the fermenter, did you have it straight down or up or the side? Orrrr maybe you don't use one, just thought of that.. you likely then had yeast or trub still blocking your port. If you use the closed transfer set up from spike the hole that is in the adapter from the racking valve to the hose is rather small. I have had an issue with this in the past but with the racking arm I don't get much in the actual tube of the arm. If you don't have one I definitely recommend it.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Also I would definitely do at least a quick dump after cold crash. If you are not using a racking arm this would likely get some of the trub out of the port. Because the port is on the cone and sits at an angle it does tend to collect trub some of which may flush out with a dump. With the racking arm you can keep it in the 6 o'clock position during fermentation, do a dump after cold crash, the rotate the arm up out of any leftover trub and start your transfer. Keeping it down during fermentation obviously limits the amount of trub that would collect inside the racking arm. It took a few times for me to get a good feel for where the best placement was for me to start, usually I start between 2 and 3 o'clock and rotate down at the end. I use the cf15 though so your experience may be different.

 

[Biggz1313]

I added a 3 way port on the pump outlet which really helped me get more accurate gravity readings along the mash process as I no longer have water around the outside of the mash tun that's not being mixed in. The added benefit this has caused allows me to attach the CFC system while I'm still whirlpooling. 15 minutes before the boil is finished, I turn the valve to force wort into the CFC while the rest of the wort goes into the whirlpool. This keeps the whirlpool at 100% rather than having the CFC reduce the flow rate! The problem I encountered was dealing with the wort output from the CFC as I no longer had ports to plug into and didn't want to remove the Condensate lid. BUT...there is a free 1.5" port on the condensate lid! So, I'm curious if anyone has tried using that port as a return line.

The possible down sides here is that I could induce splashing of the wort and that splashing could get sucked out by the condensate system. The benefits could be adding oxygen to the wort during this process as I'm dropping the wort from the top of the condensate lid...through 212F moist air...and back into the wort. I would think this would help me increase the oxygen rate of the wort in a sanitary manner.

Thoughts? Has anyone else tried this? Man, I wish I could brew more than once every other week...so many things to try!

I hope I'm replying correctly to what you're asking about, but I have the steam hat for my Spike 15g solo+ system and I 100% use either of the ports on the steam hat to recirculate my wort during the mash. I have stopped using the Spike basked and have switched to a Brew Hardware false bottom and a The Brew Bag BIAB bag for my mashing as I get much better efficiencies, and until I get my own mill, I just get too much grain in my boil using the basket. I'm sure it would work just as well using the basket vs my method, I like it WAY better than the recirculation port on the basket that trickles the wort down the side of the basket. Way too much heat transferred out of the wort this way and I get inconsistent temps in my mash bed.

 

[Golddiggie]

For those struggling to get their Spike conical below 40F with the Spike chill coil, reference this:

Simply making sure the chilled glycol is going into the correct port makes a difference.

I've also added a 1/4" thick neoprene 'hat' to both of my CF10's to help keep the cool inside. That has allowed me to chill, and maintain, temperatures easier.

 

[hagmanngr]

Also I would definitely do at least a quick dump after cold crash. If you are not using a racking arm this would likely get some of the trub out of the port. Because the port is on the cone and sits at an angle it does tend to collect trub some of which may flush out with a dump. With the racking arm you can keep it in the 6 o'clock position during fermentation, do a dump after cold crash, the rotate the arm up out of any leftover trub and start your transfer. Keeping it down during fermentation obviously limits the amount of trub that would collect inside the racking arm. It took a few times for me to get a good feel for where the best placement was for me to start, usually I start between 2 and 3 o'clock and rotate down at the end. I use the cf15 though so your experience may be different.

Thank you for both of your replies. Despite spending literally a grand on the setup, I missed the racking arm. I expect that will solve my problems along with the tips you provided. Back to the Spike site I go.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thank you for both of your replies. Despite spending literally a grand on the setup, I missed the racking arm. I expect that will solve my problems along with the tips you provided. Back to the Spike site I go.

When I was getting ready to place my two CF10 fermenters order, I worked with one of the rep's at Spike to make sure I had what I needed. That included the racking arm in each fermenter. I also got the document that shows how much it leaves behind.

IIRC, I spent about $2200 on the two fermenters fully setup. I only ordered one carbonating stone since I didn't expect to need to carbonate what's in both fermenters at the same time. Small savings. At least everything (over $100) ships free.

 

[Nate R]

Thank you for both of your replies. Despite spending literally a grand on the setup, I missed the racking arm. I expect that will solve my problems along with the tips you provided. Back to the Spike site I go.

Fwiw... you don't have to buy Spike's... but i think theirs IS designed just for them. I have since gotten TC products (gaskets clamps reducers etc.) From the amazon, and i think other sites might be even cheaper.
But the Spike racking arm IS nice. I got it from them. (I too didnt order it with my unit at first. O well).

 

[Golddiggie]

Fwiw... you don't have to buy Spike's... but i think theirs IS designed just for them. I have since gotten TC products (gaskets clamps reducers etc.) From the amazon, and i think other sites might be even cheaper.
But the Spike racking arm IS nice. I got it from them. (I too didnt order it with my unit at first. O well).

The only thing I would like the Spike racking arm to have is a handle to help you turn it. There are others out there with this feature. I might pick up one to try out. Looks like Stout Tanks offers one that could work. I'll need to make some measurements after I clean out the fermenter that I'll be filling on Sunday.

 

[k-daddy]

I'm struggling with closed pressure transfers on my CF5 (I apologize as I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the 67 pages of this topic, but I couldn't find it. Could be I'm a poor searcher) I've done them successfully on my SS Brewtech, but I never get a flow going on the CF5. First I thought it was dry hopping as my first failures were IPAs, but yesterday my Doppel Helles wouldn't go, so I had to do the old fashioned way of tub in the keg. I had cold crashed to 35 degrees for 2 days. I also noticed some trub in the racking port when cleaning, is the issue too much trub? How would I avoid that? Even if I dumped, some would settle in that port. Any ideas?

I also have the CF5. I pressure ferment @ 6-8psi and use the fermentation Co2 to purge 2 (in line), 2.5 gallon kegs. I set the racking arm in a horizontal to slightly down position prior to fermentation. For the transfer, I first rotate the racking arm to a 45 degree up position and give a quick open & close to eject any trub, then equalize the conical and keg by connecting a purged gas line to the spunding valve (Blichmann) and the keg gas post. Once equalized, I flood the transfer tubing and fill up the hydrometer tube for a FG reading, then connect to the keg out post and begin the transfer, using gravity to fill the keg which pushes the keg Co2 back into the fermentor. This has proven to work best for me and saves Co2.

 

[Golddiggie]

Curious to know how many people are using the carbonation stone (from Spike) to carbonate their finished beer IN conical. I find it's a significant time saver and makes things easier when the batch is finished. Since I fill either a 2.5 or 3 gallon keg and then can the rest, directly from conical. No need to bring more than one keg into the keezer and get them carbonated there. It also means that the racking arm gets cleared of any trub/sediment/etc. at the same time. I tend to have the racking arm either horizontal, or shift it to a slightly upward position for this.

I'm also thinking about getting one of these racking arms to play with when I have an empty CF10.
https://conical-fermenter.com/Racking-Arm-for-Non-Jacketed-Fermenters.html?cat=267

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have used the carb stone on my cf15s and I agree it is nice to have the keg ready to go right out of the fermenter. It is also nice when you don't have room in the keezer or whatever you serve from as the keg can sit where ever until your ready for it. I don't use it for my heavily dry hopped beers though cause it does stir things back up a little and those beers are hard to transfer a full batch as it is.

 

[Golddiggie]

I give the dry hopped batches a couple/few days to settle from when I stop the carbonation process to when I do the transfer to keg and can. That seems to be more than enough time for the hop matter to settle into the cone, below the racking arm pickup. I plan to do this with the batch I'm brewing Sunday.

Before I started this method I was using a corny keg carbonating lid. The problem I had there is I needed to add a secondary regulator to my CO2 system (inside the keezer) so that I could adjust the pressure sent to the stone off the lid. Carbonation time was about the same since I still had to chill the beer in the keg before starting. With the chill coil in my CF10's, getting to carbonating temperature is easier (and more certain). It also means I don't need to change the lid on the keg to carbonate the batch (especially since I would have more than one keg to carbonate).

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah I have a 4 gang regulator set up so I can carb or serve any of the 4 kegs in my keezer at any time.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yeah I have a 4 gang regulator set up so I can carb or serve any of the 4 kegs in my keezer at any time.

I have a dual body regulator for the CO2 feed going into manifolds (one each). I also have the nitro mix going to another set of manifolds (I ganged them up since I wanted to use what I already had for that feed).

I'll be removing the secondary regulator from my setup soon. Then I need to decide what to do with it. I'm thinking that I'll sell it since I don't expect to need it again.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Nice, nitro is on my list of "want that" haha.

 

[Golddiggie]

Nice, nitro is on my list of "want that" haha.

I have three faucets on CO2 and three stout faucets. All are stainless (except for the handles). I went with the old school style stout faucets (from MoreBeer) and have been thinking about changing one of the CO2 ones to another stout. I ordered the stout regulator from MoreBeer and then just went to one of the gas suppliers in my area for the 75/25 nitro/CO2 mix bottle. I went with the smaller one (5# CO2 size equal) for the first tank. Depending on how long it lasts will determine what I get when it's time for more. Since all my gas bottles are outside the keezer, going to a larger one is no issue at all.

 

[eric19312]

I use the carb stone to carbonate in the conical. Works pretty well and is nice having beer just about ready to drink same day I kegged it. I do tend to finish fermentation in sealed tank so get about half carbed naturally and rest from tank CO2.

I also use the Spike racking arm and find I have no issue turning it without any sort of handle. I use a teflon gasket between the tank and arm and the arm turns very easily with only a slight loosening of the clamp. I'd also worry how a third party racking arm would fit (would it be too long or too short to reach middle of the tank in down orientation). I assume Spike either picked their arm to fit their tank or perhaps picked the racking arm and then decided exactly where the racking port should go for the arm to work best.

 

[Golddiggie]

I tried using one of the Teflon gaskets but they didn't seal 100% during my pre-fil CO2 test. I switched back to the black gasket (provided with the conical) and those seal 100%. I'm able to loosen the clamp enough to rotate the racking arm without losing the seal. I use the butterfly valve as the handle. I'd just rather have an actual handle on the racking arm, so that I can have the valve handle set where it makes things easier. Or as I wish.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have not had any issues with it leaking at the gasket whether its super tight or I loosen to turn it, maybe lucky I guess. I just use the valve handle to turn it as well, maybe the cf15 being larger allows for enough room that it does not have a big effect on my where the valve handle ends up, that being said I do place the handle in a position so that when I rotate the arm upwards the handle will be in a convenient location for the transfer.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm sure I'll get more used to it over time. Or I'll get the racking arm I linked earlier. I've been having the handle on the opposite side of the tab on the racking arm (or the indicator to show where the pickup is).

 

[Spin711]

Does anyone have any advice for using the carb stone for oxygenating their wort? I read through the spike faq for this but I’m hoping to find more info.

I have an oxygenation wand but I’d really like to either oxygenate in-line during transfer or through the carb stone to eliminate opening the fermentor for too long to limit contamination concerns. I usually run my wand at 1 L/Min for a few minutes with O2.

It’d probably be worth an e-mail to spike to see what they recommend as a flow rate with their carb stone to achieve the same results (wetting pressure of the stone may be different than the wand?)

And as for placement, is it better to put it on the end of the racking arm vs on a dedicated port like the sample port? I’ve heard it discussed on this forum that yeast settling may cause clogging issues if connected directly to the port throughout fermentation. Then I suppose you could put it on the sample port with a butterfly valve in order to remove prior to fermentation and then attach the sample valve or re-apply to carbonate post fermentation. I also wonder if either option is less optimal because it would put the stone in less contact with the wort?

It’s easy to use the wand like I have been but I’d really like a good way to oxygenate in a closed setting in the conical.

 

[k-daddy]

I tried using one of the Teflon gaskets but they didn't seal 100% during my pre-fil CO2 test. I switched back to the black gasket (provided with the conical) and those seal 100%. I'm able to loosen the clamp enough to rotate the racking arm without losing the seal. I use the butterfly valve as the handle. I'd just rather have an actual handle on the racking arm, so that I can have the valve handle set where it makes things easier. Or as I wish.

I pressure ferment and use a teflon gasket between the conical and racking arm and never had a leak, and being able to turn the arm with only a slight loosening of the clamp makes things a whole lot easier.

 

[Golddiggie]

Does anyone have any advice for using the carb stone for oxygenating their wort? I read through the spike faq for this but I’m hoping to find more info.

I have an oxygenation wand but I’d really like to either oxygenate in-line during transfer or through the carb stone to eliminate opening the fermentor for too long to limit contamination concerns. I usually run my wand at 1 L/Min for a few minutes with O2.

It’d probably be worth an e-mail to spike to see what they recommend as a flow rate with their carb stone to achieve the same results (wetting pressure of the stone may be different than the wand?)

And as for placement, is it better to put it on the end of the racking arm vs on a dedicated port like the sample port? I’ve heard it discussed on this forum that yeast settling may cause clogging issues if connected directly to the port throughout fermentation. Then I suppose you could put it on the sample port with a butterfly valve in order to remove prior to fermentation and then attach the sample valve or re-apply to carbonate post fermentation. I also wonder if either option is less optimal because it would put the stone in less contact with the wort?

It’s easy to use the wand like I have been but I’d really like a good way to oxygenate in a closed setting in the conical.

I oxygenate at my plate chiller as the wort goes into fermenter with the item from SS Brew Tech. I carbonate with the carbonation stone (from Spike) only. I connect it to the racking arm so that it also clears that item of anything that might be in it.

IMO, the wetting pressure of the carbonating stone would give you some trouble (4psi) if you try to use it to oxygenate the wort as well.

For the Teflon gasket leak... I did my pressure test at 10psi IIRC. At that level, it leaked. It might be the gasket I was using, but I didn't have any others to test with at the time. I think I have a couple of fresh ones now. I've not had a long enough gap for when a fermenter isn't occupied (and clean) to actually try one. I'll be cleaning the fermenter that's now empty (emptied the other day) on Saturday so it can be filled on Sunday. The other one is still a couple weeks away from being empty/available. It's in the middle of week two with oak spirals in the batch (an old ale). I expect to let it sit for at least another week and a half before it gets carbonated and kegged/canned.

 

[hagmanngr]

I also have the CF5. I pressure ferment @ 6-8psi and use the fermentation Co2 to purge 2 (in line), 2.5 gallon kegs. I set the racking arm in a horizontal to slightly down position prior to fermentation. For the transfer, I first rotate the racking arm to a 45 degree up position and give a quick open & close to eject any trub, then equalize the conical and keg by connecting a purged gas line to the spunding valve (Blichmann) and the keg gas post. Once equalized, I flood the transfer tubing and fill up the hydrometer tube for a FG reading, then connect to the keg out post and begin the transfer, gravity to fill the keg which pushes the keg Co2 back into the fermentor. This has proven to work best for me and saves Co2.

Racking arm arrived today! Your transfer system sounds awesome, wish I could try it but I'm filling 5 gallon kegs and my out post is about the height of the CF5 port, so no gravity for me. But I have a couple questions for curiosity sake:

1. Pressure fermentation (which Spike seems to discourage) are you using the Blichmann spunding valve to keep you at 6-8psi? And is that pressure sufficient to keep any liquid blowoff out of the valve and purge set up?

2. I've never used a spunding valve, but I am assuming that after you hit 6-8psi, it lets any CO2 out and it goes to your kegs, pressurizing both of them. Do you need a spunding valve on the 2nd keg, set at the same psi as the first valve? Otherwise couldn't they both get to pressure and the CO2 would have no where to go? (I wish I had paid attention in physics class)

I'd love to see a picture of that set up

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm using the SS Brew Tech spunding valve. It's graduated in .2 bar increments (just use a reference chart to dial it in where you want). With the plastic cup for Starsan (cover the holes around the middle part) it's easy to see what's going on. I also have the Spike gas manifold setups on both conical fermenters. Which means I can also see what the actual pressure is inside the fermenter.

Excess CO2 goes out of the spunding valve as bubbles (easy to see).

Spike states that their gas manifold is NOT a spunding valve. This is due to the PRV being set to trip at 15psi (working pressure of the conical fermenters). As long as you set your spunding valve to release below that, you'll be fine.

I don't see any need/reason to try putting the CO2 from fermentation into a keg. Breweries that capture CO2 also scrub it before compressing it for use later. Doing that at the home level (or nano brewery) is more expensive than it's worth. It would take a LOT of batches, and years, to make the hardware purchase worth it.

I use a pressure transfer to fill my keg(s) via a closed system. Which means the gas post on the keg has a tube going into a container of Starsan, which acts as an airlock. It also allows me to see when I'm starting to get beer foam hitting the gas post dip tube. At that point, I stop the transfer. The last few batches I've not needed to use any CO2 from a bottle to do the transfer to keg. It might have needed some CO2 as I was filling cans, but it wasn't all that much. I'm using my 10# CO2 bottle for transfers these days. My 5# is used to purge the cans before filling them.

 

[Idaho Buzz]

New CF5 - Marital question

OK, so I go home after a week on the road to find 3 big boxes of Spike goodies sitting in the entryway. After an appropriate malling by the dogs and then my wife…. The NEXT day I find myself spending 30 minutes explaining to the wife why I was soaped up in the shower with my CF5!

is it just my luck or are there more of us being caught in compromising situations?