Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[bailey mountain brewer]

I had an issue when I first got my all in 1 prv and it was slowly leaking from the plunger that you push down to release pressure. I had to kinda mess with that plunger a little to get it to seal.

 

[Darth_Duane]

I had an issue when I first got my all in 1 prv and it was slowly leaking from the plunger that you push down to release pressure. I had to kinda mess with that plunger a little to get it to seal.

I had to take the ball lock post off the PRV a few times and retape it before i could get it to seal as well. Spraying with starsan always showed a very small leak until i got the thread tape just right.

On a side note i got my new chilling coil in and this one seems fine, I have a new batch fermenting and it's now holding pressure fine and not leaking.

 

[beervoid]

Hey all, I'm transferring from a conical to kegs with ball locks and it's going SUPER slow. I put 15 psi pressure on the tank and the receiving keg has a spunding valve on it that releases under 5psi. I'm using the evabarrier 3/8" the biggest diameter they have and the line is short.
Are any other people experiencing the same?
How did you solve this?
I'd like to keep the ball locks as they make purging some much easier.
Cheers!

 

[k-daddy]

I use ball lock connections as well when racking to kegs. I use gravity and the conical is under 10-12 psi. I use a jumper line (gas post on top of the fermenter to the gas post on keg) to equalize the pressure between the two vessels. My racking tubing is similar to yours… never had a problem. I would check to see if there is a blockage in the ball lock poppet. If some hop debris gets in there, the flow will slow or stop.

 

[beervoid]

I use ball lock connections as well when racking to kegs. I use gravity and the conical is under 10-12 psi. I use a jumper line (gas post on top of the fermenter to the gas post on keg) to equalize the pressure between the two vessels. My racking tubing is similar to yours… never had a problem. I would check to see if there is a blockage in the ball lock poppet. If some hop debris gets in there, the flow will slow or stop.

I did check that and when there is debris I clear it but it doesnt improve transfer much. I can barely see the level rise, never timed it but one keg takes at least 10-15 mins I think.

Is your conical higher then your keg?
I'm thinking cause my racking arm is low and it has to push the beer up it makes it slower.

 

[ShaLaH]

My guess is that some fine particles have clogged up your liquid disconnect or the liquid post on your keg. Clean them out, re-sanitize, and start the transfer again. This happens to me when transferring IPA's with a large dry hop or fruited Sours.

 

[ShaLaH]

Yeah, my conical is higher than my keg. 10-15 mins to fill a keg isn't bad. You want a gentle transfer with minimal splashing. I haven't timed my kegging process but 10-15 mins seems about right to me.

 

[sibelman]

SUPER slow.

As @ShaLaH said, 10-15 minutes is fine -- high speed could involve foaming. In my experience, your "SUPER slow" speed is actually kinda fast and does not indicate a problem. With 5mm EVAbarrier and ball-locks, my transfer time (with keg and fermenter at the same level and only <5 psi added pressure) is more like 20 minutes.

 

[k-daddy]

I did check that and when there is debris I clear it but it doesnt improve transfer much. I can barely see the level rise, never timed it but one keg takes at least 10-15 mins I think.

Is your conical higher then your keg?
I'm thinking cause my racking arm is low and it has to push the beer up it makes it slower.

Yes, I use 2.5 gallon kegs and they are positioned lower than the racking arm. Maybe pull on the keg PRV to see if that helps. If it does, it might point to your spunding valve.

 

[beervoid]

As @ShaLaH said, 10-15 minutes is fine -- high speed could involve foaming. In my experience, your "SUPER slow" speed is actually kinda fast and does not indicate a problem. With 5mm EVAbarrier and ball-locks, my transfer time (with keg and fermenter at the same level and only <5 psi added pressure) is more like 20 minutes.

ok so it sounds like those lines are just very slow, the thing is when I transfer from a keg to a keg it goes much faster, I do however have filters in the kegs so perhaps I should test more with a filter in between.
cheers everyone!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I use a filter between my cf15 and my kegs, I fill by weight and instead of a spunding valve I just have a ball lock with a hose on it going in a bucket of starsan. Fill in 5 to 10 minutes per keg with about 3 to 5psi on the fermenter if I don't carbonate in the fermenter. If I do carb first then the transfer takes much longer and I use a spunding valve.

 

[Darth_Duane]

takes me about 15-20 minutes to fill a keg, but I take it slow and use a spunding valve to make sure there is little to no foaming since I carb in the CF5. I have definitely had the poppets get clogged up with junk before and had to clean it all out and start over though.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Yeah same 20-25 minutes for me. 15 psi on fermenter, start with 10 psi on the spunding valve. As it fills and the hydrostatic pressure build I left the pressure in the spunding valve to keep it flowing.

 

[Yesfan]

I guess pressure fermentation also means there's going to be slower transfer times. Glad to know this now since I'm in mid fermentation with a batch.

 

[beervoid]

Hey all,

So I have maybe screwed up a batch just now in my conical and hoping for some feedback here.
I have a butterfly valve directly on the bottom of my conical, normally I dump from there but have just not changed to a diaphragm valve to control the dump speed better.
Now at day 7 I hooked it up as following
Butterfly valve -> elbow -> sightglass -> diaphragm valve - tubing thread out.
I was concerned that I would get a bubble floating into my tank as I opened the butterfly valve, but since I have about 4psi of pressure on the head of the tank left (not connected to gas), I was assuming that the bubble would come out through the bottom as I opened the diaphragm valve.
Once I cracked the butterfly valve however and started turning the diaphragm valve, I could hear a bubble escape into the tank.

I did not purge the new connected setup as I did not think there would be a bubble going into the tank with head pressure.
Did I not have enough pressure in order to prevent the bubble from escaping?
Should I have the diaphragm valve open when I crack the butterfly?

I hope this one bubble didnt wreck my beer, anyone has a similar experience? I'm leaving the beer on 21c for now hoping the yeast will absorb any DO that got into the beer.

Cheers everyone!

 

[SonomaBrewer]

I've unintentionally done the same thing, in fact wirh more than one bubble that went north after opening the dump valve. To my taste buds didn't impact anything.

If you think about a few large bubbles traveling up through the beer have so little surface area, they would not really oxygenate the beer. They would land in the conical headspace, which you could purge if you are worried about it.

What I've done more recently is to purge the setup below the dump valve with CO2 - even with 5-10 psi pressure on top I could not avoid some bubbles going up through the tank. So now it's just CO2 bubbles.

 

[beervoid]

I've unintentionally done the same thing, in fact wirh more than one bubble that went north after opening the dump valve. To my taste buds didn't impact anything.

If you think about a few large bubbles traveling up through the beer have so little surface area, they would not really oxygenate the beer. They would land in the conical headspace, which you could purge if you are worried about it.

What I've done more recently is to purge the setup below the dump valve with CO2 - even with 5-10 psi pressure on top I could not avoid some bubbles going up through the tank. So now it's just CO2 bubbles.

Thanks for easing my paranoia, I thought the same thing, I'll be dryhopping later on so hopefully whatever minimal oxygen got in is not damaging the beer.
Problem being this time I had to connect this construction during fermentation as the parts came in, I'll keep it connected now from fermentation.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

If you get a gas post to connect co2 to the bottom of your assembly you can put co2 pressure on it and loosen the clamp closest to your butterfly until it starts to let some pressure out, let it hiss fo a little while, that will purge as much oxygen as possible. That way you don't have all that good stuff sitting in the elbow and sight glass during fermentation.

 

[beervoid]

If you get a gas post to connect co2 to the bottom of your assembly you can put co2 pressure on it and loosen the clamp closest to your butterfly until it starts to let some pressure out, let it hiss fo a little while, that will purge as much oxygen as possible. That way you don't have all that good stuff sitting in the elbow and sight glass during fermentation.

I have one but after dumping yeast there would be no point purging it as there is all beer in there.
My plan was to open the butterfly valve a little after dumping the yeast so that I can keep the elbow and valve on it but not have all the hops drop in it but still have the bottom piping filled with liquid so I can rouse and dump

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Correct yes, but what I was referring to is next time you set up this way to purge that section with co2 before dumping yeast. That way the little bubble that goes into your fermenter will be mostly co2 not oxygen.

 

[Darth_Duane]

Hey all,

So I have maybe screwed up a batch just now in my conical and hoping for some feedback here.
I have a butterfly valve directly on the bottom of my conical, normally I dump from there but have just not changed to a diaphragm valve to control the dump speed better.
Now at day 7 I hooked it up as following
Butterfly valve -> elbow -> sightglass -> diaphragm valve - tubing thread out.
I was concerned that I would get a bubble floating into my tank as I opened the butterfly valve, but since I have about 4psi of pressure on the head of the tank left (not connected to gas), I was assuming that the bubble would come out through the bottom as I opened the diaphragm valve.
Once I cracked the butterfly valve however and started turning the diaphragm valve, I could hear a bubble escape into the tank.

I did not purge the new connected setup as I did not think there would be a bubble going into the tank with head pressure.
Did I not have enough pressure in order to prevent the bubble from escaping?
Should I have the diaphragm valve open when I crack the butterfly?

I hope this one bubble didnt wreck my beer, anyone has a similar experience? I'm leaving the beer on 21c for now hoping the yeast will absorb any DO that got into the beer.

Cheers everyone!

Is there a reason for putting the butterfly valve at the top and not at the end? If you have any sealed sections with air it's going to be impossible to avoid oxygen ingress. I always put my valve at the end of the line and just let the trub fill the elbow.

 

[beervoid]

Is there a reason for putting the butterfly valve at the top and not at the end? If you have any sealed sections with air it's going to be impossible to avoid oxygen ingress. I always put my valve at the end of the line and just let the trub fill the elbow.

To not have dryhops drop in there and maximize contact.

 

[beervoid]

Correct yes, but what I was referring to is next time you set up this way to purge that section with co2 before dumping yeast. That way the little bubble that goes into your fermenter will be mostly co2 not oxygen.

More inclined to keep it on from start and fill with wort

 

[Darth_Duane]

To not have dryhops drop in there and maximize contact.

I guess you will have to choose which bothers you more. I'm crazy about avoiding cold side oxidation and I have never had a problem with dry hop character.

In some of the early posts on this thread users were using CO2 to rouse dry hops from the bottom up in to solution. I'm not sure how succesful this is in practice since in my experience anything that has dropped out quickly drops back out again. I tend not to dump my trub so that elbow is just full of trub and yeast cake and any dry hops wouldn't be in the elbow anyway. As was mentioned before, purging that space as best you can might at least mitigate some of the oxygen.

 

[beervoid]

I guess you will have to choose which bothers you more. I'm crazy about avoiding cold side oxidation and I have never had a problem with dry hop character.

In some of the early posts on this thread users were using CO2 to rouse dry hops from the bottom up in to solution. I'm not sure how succesful this is in practice since in my experience anything that has dropped out quickly drops back out again. I tend not to dump my trub so that elbow is just full of trub and yeast cake and any dry hops wouldn't be in the elbow anyway. As was mentioned before, purging that space as best you can might at least mitigate some of the oxygen.

Yes I need to drump to yeast as I do rouse and for me it made a big difference, got much more extraction so im definately planning on experimenting more with it, pressure and time.
I would close the butterfly just a bit so that the hops would hopefully mostly stay in the bottom of the tank, the 2" tc port and elbow would house quiet some volume I would think.

 

[beervoid]

So I've completed dumping yeast but noticed that there is a layer in my sightglass on the bottom that just doesnt want to budge.
Any other people having this problem? I suspect it's cause the sightglass diameter is not the same as the piping.

 

[IDMaynard]

Hey all,

So I have maybe screwed up a batch just now in my conical and hoping for some feedback here.
I have a butterfly valve directly on the bottom of my conical, normally I dump from there but have just not changed to a diaphragm valve to control the dump speed better.
Now at day 7 I hooked it up as following
Butterfly valve -> elbow -> sightglass -> diaphragm valve - tubing thread out.
I was concerned that I would get a bubble floating into my tank as I opened the butterfly valve, but since I have about 4psi of pressure on the head of the tank left (not connected to gas), I was assuming that the bubble would come out through the bottom as I opened the diaphragm valve.
Once I cracked the butterfly valve however and started turning the diaphragm valve, I could hear a bubble escape into the tank.

I did not purge the new connected setup as I did not think there would be a bubble going into the tank with head pressure.
Did I not have enough pressure in order to prevent the bubble from escaping?
Should I have the diaphragm valve open when I crack the butterfly?

I hope this one bubble didnt wreck my beer, anyone has a similar experience? I'm leaving the beer on 21c for now hoping the yeast will absorb any DO that got into the beer.

Cheers everyone!

I stopped using the elbow, I have the butterfly valve and a hose barb fitting and just dump straight into a small bucket (I attach a short piece of tubing to the hose barb. I have not had any problems doing it this way without issue (though some type of valve that I could control the dump speed would be nice).

 

[beervoid]

I stopped using the elbow, I have the butterfly valve and a hose barb fitting and just dump straight into a small bucket (I attach a short piece of tubing to the hose barb. I have not had any problems doing it this way without issue (though some type of valve that I could control the dump speed would be nice).

Been working allright for me too but it does get messy at times and I feel like I could get better yields with the diaphragm valve.
Also hoping that I will have to dump less times so saving time.

 

[beervoid]

For those who are thinking to invest in a diaphragm valve here's my experience.
I only did 1 batch so far and have had a far less yield then before.
Reason being. Basically the diaphragma valve has the same problem as a direct butterfly, it's moving either too slow or not and then BOOM starts moving very fast, problem being you can't shut it very fast so you need to have another hand on the butterfly valve, I'd would say that just dumping straight from the butterfly valve would make more sense as I feel I can time it better and faster.
So far im not impressed with this thing but I will keep using it to see if I can learn to use it better.

Any comments techniques welcome if there are other uses of these types of valves.

 

[FswBG]

For those who are thinking to invest in a diaphragm valve here's my experience.
I only did 1 batch so far and have had a far less yield then before.
Reason being. Basically the diaphragma valve has the same problem as a direct butterfly, it's moving either too slow or not and then BOOM starts moving very fast, problem being you can't shut it very fast so you need to have another hand on the butterfly valve, I'd would say that just dumping straight from the butterfly valve would make more sense as I feel I can time it better and faster.
So far im not impressed with this thing but I will keep using it to see if I can learn to use it better.

Any comments techniques welcome if there are other uses of these types of valves.

What I have found, that works well for me at least, has been to remove the elbow completely and similar to a few others go fermenter>valve>SG>valve>QD. This allows me to account for most situations.

If I dry hop, I’ll close the first valve (SG still filled) to allow better contact with beer instead of sitting in a SG. Once DH is done I’ll open it up and let the hops settle down into SG and continue dumping hops/yeast until I see beer at the top of the SG.

If I harvest yeast, I’ll dump trub and early floc’d yeast by connecting normal 1/2”ID tubing that’s 4’ or so to provide enough resistance to avoid the slow to explosive release that usually busts through the sediment bed. Once I’ve got a SG full of healthy yeast I’ll remove the tubing and go straight into a flask.

Taking that approach I don’t have issues clogging or worrying about the bubble going up through the fermenter. If on rare occasion I need to attach the SG after the fact I’ll purge it with CO2 beforehand. I’ve had my frustrations as many of you have as well, but once you find a good process it becomes easier to avoid the headaches and you know what to expect.