Thanks Wreck! I'll check all of that out.
EDIT: It shipped!! Happy I am.
EDIT: It shipped!! Happy I am.
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Spike Complete System
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Gibberoni
Well-Known Member
Nice! Enjoy your first brew with it.
I am hoping to brew sometime next week. I will keep you guys posted with my results
OK so I did the wet test today with some issues as follows.
1-the first test seemed to be going really smooth but then it went south fast. I had a couple of valves and fittings with very small leaks so no big deal. Then I noticed the HLT was getting real full and then the mash tun had lost about two gallons of water. So I then shut it all down and went over all of the fittings in question. By doing so I found the problem with the mash tun drain to the HLT.
Part 2-Everything went very smooth for the most part, mash tun and hlt volumes held and had no leaks. Then I tried to simulate switching to the spage part and transferring to the BK at the same time. This is where things went south. I was transferring WAY too quick and thought I was set to (key word being thought) I was going slow.I could not keep the mash tun level consistent to save my life.
Now my question is this, what is the best way to regulate the water in the tun (over the grain bed easiest)
I have the Spike valves but are using Blichmann pumps with the linear control valve. I was thinking it would be easiest to control level with pumps or am I missing something?
1-the first test seemed to be going really smooth but then it went south fast. I had a couple of valves and fittings with very small leaks so no big deal. Then I noticed the HLT was getting real full and then the mash tun had lost about two gallons of water. So I then shut it all down and went over all of the fittings in question. By doing so I found the problem with the mash tun drain to the HLT.
Part 2-Everything went very smooth for the most part, mash tun and hlt volumes held and had no leaks. Then I tried to simulate switching to the spage part and transferring to the BK at the same time. This is where things went south. I was transferring WAY too quick and thought I was set to (key word being thought) I was going slow.I could not keep the mash tun level consistent to save my life.
Now my question is this, what is the best way to regulate the water in the tun (over the grain bed easiest)
I have the Spike valves but are using Blichmann pumps with the linear control valve. I was thinking it would be easiest to control level with pumps or am I missing something?
Gibberoni
Well-Known Member
With me, I simply open the BK input valve by a crack. I do the same with the MLT input from the HLT and then open and close every 15 or so minutes. I maintain a relatively stable layer of water over the mash.
I would also like to say that today's brew was actually ON TARGET! Brewed my Wee Heavy recipe to hopefully be ready for Xmas or New Years, so needed to get it in today. Target OG was 1.085 and I hit 1.083. 80% efficiency. So happy I was able to finally hit my numbers!
That is fantastic news! Congrats and working through the issues and nailing it. I may have questions later hahaha.
@Gibberoni what did you change in your process to hit your numbers?
Stir, mash / sparge differently or was it beer smith set up?
Stir, mash / sparge differently or was it beer smith set up?
OK, first brew day done and here are some results. (btw I learned a lot today)
Mash PH was 5.48
OG was 1.042 (target was 1.044)
So for a first go with no herms experience not too bad.
Been cooler brewing with my brother in law for a year or so.
Mash PH was 5.48
OG was 1.042 (target was 1.044)
So for a first go with no herms experience not too bad.
Been cooler brewing with my brother in law for a year or so.
Long story but I wound up with a 20G dip tube for the mash tun and I used it in the mash tun during the sparge.
Gibberoni
Well-Known Member
I did a 2 hour mash and stirred during the mash multiple times. I also installed loc-line braid in a circular pattern to help with the channeling from the hose that came with the setup.
They sent me the 20G false bottom along with the 20G pick up tube. It made a great sparge arm and I figured out ow best to control the flow finally.
While it looks like you have the leak problems mostly fixed, a common problem is where the coils in the HLT attach to it with the Push To Connect fittings. If it isn't in tight, it WILL leak. I have learned that (twice) as the HLT starts to fill up and the MT starts to drain. Now, I always double and triple check the fittings.
As to balancing the water during sparge and into the BK, I first off use the two valves closest to the receiving kettles. It is easy and convenient to use. They are at the top of the MT and the input to the BK. I have them both set very low. I mean VERY low. Sparging on my 20 gal system is about 40-50 minutes, but I now always hit my numbers.
Back to your question about balancing them... If you are working those two valves, you can do them both simultaneously, and I always reference a point on the volume etchings on the MT to see how it is going. As you get them close, you will only make very tiny minor adjustments. One thing I did that helped significantly, is that I marked with a green sharpie the point where both valves pointed to when it was set. Now I set to those points, make those minor adjustments from there and am usually pretty close. If you'd like I will see if I can post some pics.
Enjoy your system. I am now on batch 14, and love the challenges of it. It seems that I am learning every time I brew, and brew days are always fun.
Yes please! I think I have things working, but more info is always welcome.
2nd brew day in the books and I love this system. I have now learned what adjustments I need to make in beersmith to get my numbers on the money. I have been close on both but next brew should be dialed in.
Cheers mates!
Cheers mates!
Could you give me an idea of what your beersmith profile looks like? I have the 20 gal system and I am trying to nail the profile down.
Also, how do you manage a 5 hour brew day with cleaning? I average about 8 hours with cleaning.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
the hose really should work just as well for both recirculation and sparging without channeling since you should have an inch or so of liquid sitting on the grainbed at all times. it should more or less be swirling.
You may already know this but if you use that arm while recirculating you would be oxidizing the hell out of your wort. maybe slip a hose on the end for recirculation?
For just sparging it wont hurt anything to use it without a hose and you wont have to worry about siphoning back to the HLT.
blichmann makes a float switch to regulate sparge level and keep flow consistent if you dont like to manually keep checking it which is what we do even at the brewery.
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Thanks augie!
I only used the tube like that just for sparge and used the tubing for recirc during the mash on my brew. This past brew I used the tubing for both.
My numbers were better the first brew and I think I know why.
I am also looking at a better way to keep the level during sparge where I want them but for now I am just having to keep playing with the valves. But good news is I know where the spots are now.
Here is how I have mine set up. It realistically predicts my volumes very well
To get my brew day down to 5 hours I do as many things in parallel as possible.
- I heat strike water and HLT water simultaneously - and weigh out all hops, grains, and water additions while heating
- I usually mash for 60 minutes tweaking mash temp as needed
- sparge for about 30 minutes adjusting flow rates to mash the runoff to the sparge flow as needed
- I have the boil element turned on as soon as its covered in wort so that I'm boiling almost as soon as the sparge is complete
- As soon as sparge is complete I start cleaning the mash tun by scooping out most of the grain into a bucket and the vacuuming the rest out with a shop vac
- I spray out the mash tun with pressurized water then vaccuum and repeat.
- When there's no visible residue remaining, I undo my TC fitting on the mash tun outlet and pull out the dip tube and false bottom to clean under it.
- When no visible residue is remaining I scrub out the mash tun with barkeepers friend and a sponge and use the rinse/vacuum method repeatedly until I'm confident there's no soap residue
- Once the mash tun is clean I sanitize my fermenter and prep my yeast for pitching
- By the time the boil is complete the only thing I have left to do is chill, transfer to fermenter, pitch yeast, and clean the boil kettle and pump.
- I fill the boil kettle with the remaining HLT water, add oxyclean and recirculate it through the wort pump and chiller for 10 minutes, then drain and rinse/vacuum until there's no residue
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
this is almost exactly our process on the 3bbl system at the brewery only the sparge takes longer and we perform a long step mashout... And we scoop our grain out of the manway into 4 or 5 15 gallon totes and call the farmer to come pick up
Sometimes we will pre measure and mill our grains the day before as well as preheat the strike water the night before while im there bartending..
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
At the brewery we sparge at about 1.5gpm using an inline flow meter... maybe that has something to do with the 85% efficiency? as mentioned at home I do 1.8gmp flow during recirc and 1gpm sparge flow and get 91%. Beside mill crush I do not see any other possible differences in our methodes... oh and we do adjust the ph.. that can make a big difference.
I will mention in case I forgot before that I went from 87% to 91% when just starting to do a proper mashout with the rims and slowing my sparge from 1.8gpm to 1gpm...
I will mention in case I forgot before that I went from 87% to 91% when just starting to do a proper mashout with the rims and slowing my sparge from 1.8gpm to 1gpm...
I do adjust pH, and I suspect that you're correct that it's all down to flow rate. I've noticed a "breakover" point on my last couple brews where if my flow rate creeps up to the point where ANY channeling is happening my efficiency tanks.
Do you baffle your incoming sparge water before it hits the grain bed? I have just been running mine directly from a hose connected to the return port.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I have a stout style sparge spinkler pipe at the brewery... at home I use a simple hose sitting on the grainbed now.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
when recirculating I have a separate hose laying on the grainbed at brewery.. see my edited post above
Thanks for sharing your process, I am going to try this on my next brew day. I have the 20 gallon system and my volumes are a bit different. Is there a reason you have the .5 gallon recoverable mash dead space? Also, where do you enter the HERMS dead space? I have mine set currently at 1 gallon dead space in the mash (non recoverable), due to the .5 gal in HERMS, and .41 gal in the mash tun (per spike). I love the system, but currently experiencing low efficiencies (50%) and missed SG. I believe it could be between the volumes, sparge (channeling), or grain crush.
How does the locline connect? I have never used one, but I may pick one up to see if that helps my efficiency at all.
It's just shuffling beans from one pile to another
The way I think about it, There's no unrecoverable dead space at all because you run your sparge water through the HERMS coil before it enters your mash tun, and you can just add more sparge water to account for any losses due to the system, so any volume you lose, you can always make up.
In other words, I sparge to reach my preboil volume, so the only reason I have the 0.5 gallons in the mash tun is to account for the volume occupied by the false bottom so that my strike water volume is accurate.
As Auggie said above, I'd drastically reduce your flow rate, especially during mash recirc.. Like barely trickling, and it should help.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
There is no non recoverable dead space as long as your flushing the wort from herms coil and space under the false bottom with sparge water at the end of a brew .
@augiedoggy and @TheMadKing how do you guys handle doing a mash out? Meaning ramp up and how long before you start sparge?
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I start ramping up after an hour of holding at mash temp. It takes like 45 mins orclose to it, to get the whole mash from say 150 to 165 then I sparge at between 1.5 and 2 gpm rate which takes about another 40 mins or so... dont forget this is on a 3bbl system.. I did the same at home which took way less time and sparge at 1gpm pr less.
Thanks man! This is about the same thing or close to what I am doing. At the end of the mash I ramp up to 168, hold for 10 min, then kill the HLT temp and start sparge.
I generally don't bother with a proper mash out, but when I do, I shut off my wort recirc pump at about 45 minutes into the mash and start heating the HLT water to 170, then I just start sparging with it rather than ramping my entire mash.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
This is what I did for a long time at home when my efficiency was 87-88%. When I started ramping the mash up before sparging it jumped to 91% and I dont know if it was from just extending the mash period, or the mashout or the fact that I also slowed my sparge flow rate down at the same time.
Gibberoni
Well-Known Member
I bought a kit that came with a threaded connection, and took out the push to fit fitting where the mash return line went, and screwed in the loc line there.
Alright, thanks.
Alright, so I am in the middle of a brew now and I'm trying to take everyone's advice about throttling the recirc back to a trickle. When doing so, to maintain my mash temp I need to keep the HLT 18° hotter than my MT (MT@152, HLT@170). When I was running the recirc full bore I was only 3° difference between MT and HLT. Does this seem right? The HLT water recirc is running wide open, the MT is throttled back to a slow stream.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
This doesnt make any sense? Your saying your loosing 18 degrees in the 10 minutes it takes the liquid to be deposited on the top of your mash tun at 170 degrees to the time it reaches the temp probe at or near the exit port of your mash tun?
Are you brewing outdoors someplace really cold and windy?
are you recirculating the water around in your HLT?
btw 1.5-2 gpm is more than a trickle..
Once I opened up the recirc valve a but more the temperature difference doesn't need to be as significant. I don't have a way to check the actual gpm. I brew in my temperature controlled basement. I used to run the recirc wide open and only had to keep the HLT 3°F warmer than the mash temp. Throttling the recirc back I need to increase the temperature difference.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I can only share my experience over the last 6 years of using my system here.
I use a rims in my home setup but the temp probe of the wort leaving the rims tube in my setup is only 1-2 degrees higher than the temp reading of the wort leaving the bottom of my MT heading to the rims. This is with a 16 gallon stainless bayou classic kettle which is non insulated and this is with actual measured 1.8gpm I brew in a spare bedroom converted to a home brewery room.
I use a rims in my home setup but the temp probe of the wort leaving the rims tube in my setup is only 1-2 degrees higher than the temp reading of the wort leaving the bottom of my MT heading to the rims. This is with a 16 gallon stainless bayou classic kettle which is non insulated and this is with actual measured 1.8gpm I brew in a spare bedroom converted to a home brewery room.
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