Speciality grain steeping volume and extract addition time

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TomSelleck

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Hey, I'm going to try make a Torpedo Clone with the following recipe (I've been playing around with it for nearly two weeks now and I'm almost commited)

O.G. 1.075 (est)
F.G. 1.021 (est)
ABV 7.05 (est)
IBU 74.8 (Tinseth, est)
SRM 9.43 (est)

BU/GU ratio: 1.00

Fermentables:

4.5 KG Light DME - 79.8%

Steeping Grain:

0.65 KG Cara-Pils Dextrine - 11.5%
0.49 KG Crystal 40L - 8.7%

35g Magnum 10.7% 90 minutes
14g Hallertau Mittelfruh 3.0% 90 minutes

25g Magnum 30 minutes

25g Magnum 10 minutes
50g Hallertau Mittelfruh 10 minutes

42.5g Hallertau Mittelfruh DRY 7 days
28g Magnum DRY 7 days
14g Citra DRY 7 days

Yeast: 1.5 x 11.5g US-05

I was just wondering how much water should I steep the Crystal / Carapils in?

I'm only asking because I made a pale ale that turned out like a porter because I kept topping up the steeping water to try and maintain ~70c xD.

Also, I've just read that it may be better to add the extract closer to the end of the boil for better hop utilization / colour, what your thoughts on this? And should the speciality grain be added to the start or end of the boil??
 

masskrug

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Just out of curiosity, why are you boiling an extract batch for 90 minutes?

Are you doing a half boil, or full volume?

I would steep your specialty malts in the water volume you are going to boil. I'd add the extract ~20 minutes.
 
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TomSelleck

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Just out of curiosity, why are you boiling an extract batch for 90 minutes?

Are you doing a half boil, or full volume?

I would steep your specialty malts in the water volume you are going to boil. I'd add the extract ~20 minutes.

I have the space to do a full volume boil. The reason I was planning on doing 90 minutes is because I'm basing it off this recipe found here

O.G. 1.076 (actual)
F.G. 1.016 (est)
ABV 7.0 (est)
IBU 82.7 (Tinseth, est)
SRM 8.8 (est)

23 lbs Great Western 2-row
2 lbs Cara-Pils Dextrine
1.5 lbs Crystal 60

70g Magnum 10.5% 90 minutes
28.3g Crystal 3.3% 90 minutes

50g Magnum 30 minutes

50g Magnum 10 minutes
100g Crystal 10 minutes

85g Crystal DRY 7 days
57g Magnum DRY 7 days
28g Citra DRY 7 days

Mash at 150 F
Mash Efficiency 80%

Yeast: White Labs WLP-001
 

flars

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The recipe you are basing your beer on has a 90 minute boil to reduce the total volume of liquor that is required for mashing and sparging. The boil off brings the OG of the wort up to the recipes target OG.

You have converted the recipe to extract so the conversion of starches to sugars has already been done. You only need to boil long enough for isomerization of the hop oils for bittering. Bittering can be achieved with a 60 minute boil.

Steeping of grains for color and flavor can be done in whatever volume you are going to boil. Steeping grains do not need to be mashed which would require a certain grain to liquor ratio.

Late extract addition is a method to keep beers lighter in color. Not necessary for a stout or porter. You do need to add some extract at the beginning of the boil for hop utilization. General thought is about one pound of extract per gallon of boil volume.
 

Yooper

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That recipe has too much cara/crystal malt at nearly 20%, plus whatever is in the extract. Definitely cut out at least half of the carapils and/or crystal malt.

Also, I wouldn't do a 90 minute boil with extract either. Steep your grains (doesn't matter in how much), remove the grains, and then bring the wort up to a boil. Add 1/2 of your extract, do the recipe, and then add the other 1/2 at flame out.

I've never heard of hallertauer making a good IPA, so make sure you let us know how that comes out. It's far too subtle with a "fine" aroma and it's very German tasting. I'd try to get something else like crystal hops or something with more flavor.
 
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TomSelleck

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That recipe has too much cara/crystal malt at nearly 20%, plus whatever is in the extract. Definitely cut out at least half of the carapils and/or crystal malt.

Also, I wouldn't do a 90 minute boil with extract either. Steep your grains (doesn't matter in how much), remove the grains, and then bring the wort up to a boil. Add 1/2 of your extract, do the recipe, and then add the other 1/2 at flame out.

I've never heard of hallertauer making a good IPA, so make sure you let us know how that comes out. It's far too subtle with a "fine" aroma and it's very German tasting. I'd try to get something else like crystal hops or something with more flavor.

Thanks for the advice.

My reasoning for using that much grain was that I needed to increase the amount of grain proportionally to the DME.

I picked hallertauer as a replacement for crystal as my supplier doesn't have any..

What do you reckon would be the best modifications to the original recipe to make an extract version given the supplies I have (everything in my recipe) ?
 

thegreatmaibockaddict

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Firstly, the 90 minute boil time will give you a greater hop efficiency.

There is a chart here with calculations on my site
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hopcalculations.shtml

Secondly, the technique that I always used to steep grains was to place the crushed grains in a cheesecloth bag and plop them in the pot when you turn on the heat. Let them sit at 150-155 for 15 -20 minutes and remove them at 170F.

The extract can be added right after the grains are removed.

If you want to cut the boil to 60 minutes, you will need to add more hops to compensate (though not that much)
 

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