Sparkling "Hard" water recipe

[Miraculix]

Fair enough. If it works without staggering the nutrients, even better.

A bunch of people are having issues, so I suggested a failsafe method.

Yes good idea. This "pitch all at one go if og is low enough" was developed by loveofrose within his BOMM adventures. This knowledge does not seem to be available readily, so I thought i'd just add it.

Oh, and if you scroll down in the TOSNA calculator that you've linked to, you can choos Ale/Lager yeast. i'd prefer a clean ale yeast over wine yeast, just because of the better flocculation capabilities. Those little spoiled brats need more nutes, but the calculator takes this into account.

 

[eric19312]

Every time I get set to try this I run into new requirements. I bought Fermax yeast nutrient which I guess is similar to Fermaid-K and Red Star Champagne Yeast. Using that Tonsa calculator now I see l will need Go-Ferm too. Is that really necessary? Also I thought I was seeing yeast nutrient rates in range of 4oz in 5 gallons but that calcium says 4 grams....

Also de-gassing? I’ll look it up...


I guess I’ll follow this recipe... https://bsgcraft.com/Resources/Directions/Pineapple Hard Seltzer Instructions.pdf

 

[Miraculix]

Every time I get set to try this I run into new requirements. I bought Fermax yeast nutrient which I guess is similar to Fermaid-K and Red Star Champagne Yeast. Using that Tonsa calculator now I see l will need Go-Ferm too. Is that really necessary? Also I thought I was seeing yeast nutrient rates in range of 4oz in 5 gallons but that calcium says 4 grams....

Also de-gassing? I’ll look it up...


I guess I’ll follow this recipe... https://bsgcraft.com/Resources/Directions/Pineapple Hard Seltzer Instructions.pdf

For fermenting water with sugar, you need a complete yeast nutrient which basically gives the yeast everything it needs. Fermaid K and others, less komplex nutrients, are basically a mix of chemicals but they do not cover all the micro nutrients that are necessary for yeast growth. If you really need to add EVERYTHING except sugar, I would go with Fermaid O, which is, to my knowledge, the most complete yeast nutrient as it basically is dead yeast which has been grown to store nutrients. I am not sure if the Go-Ferm is really necessary for such lower ABV brews (Tosna was invented for wine and mead), but it certainly helps.

I googled your fermax, it seems to be diamonium phosphate and urea. So it is basically lacking everything else which the yeast needs. I would throw it away, tbh. as diamonium phosphate tends to leave a taste anyway. I would just buy myself Fermaid O and skip the go ferm.

I also would not use a champagne yeast, but a clean ale yeast like Nottingham or similar as it flocuulates much better than Wine yeasts.

 

[bracconiere]

Every time I get set to try this I run into new requirements. I bought Fermax yeast nutrient which I guess is similar to Fermaid-K and Red Star Champagne Yeast. Using that Tonsa calculator now I see l will need Go-Ferm too. Is that really necessary? Also I thought I was seeing yeast nutrient rates in range of 4oz in 5 gallons but that calcium says 4 grams....

Also de-gassing? I’ll look it up...


I guess I’ll follow this recipe... https://bsgcraft.com/Resources/Directions/Pineapple Hard Seltzer Instructions.pdf

lol, when i got cut off from malt before, and had to resort to booze...the simplest way for me to ferment sugar water, was to boil a bunch of wheat germ, and add it to the wash....

 

[eric19312]

I googled your fermax, it seems to be diamonium phosphate and urea. So it is basically lacking everything else which the yeast needs. I would throw it away, tbh. as diamonium phosphate tends to leave a taste anyway. I would just buy myself Fermaid O and skip the go ferm.

Where did you see that? I found this: Fermax is a blend of diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate and autolyzed yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

Where did you see that? I found this: Fermax is a blend of diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate and autolyzed yeast.

Somewhere in the comments, does not have to be correct. If it has autolyzed yeast in it, then that would increase its effect i guess.

 

[Goyagon]

For fermenting water with sugar, you need a complete yeast nutrient which basically gives the yeast everything it needs. Fermaid K and others, less komplex nutrients, are basically a mix of chemicals but they do not cover all the micro nutrients that are necessary for yeast growth. If you really need to add EVERYTHING except sugar, I would go with Fermaid O, which is, to my knowledge, the most complete yeast nutrient as it basically is dead yeast which has been grown to store nutrients. I am not sure if the Go-Ferm is really necessary for such lower ABV brews (Tosna was invented for wine and mead), but it certainly helps.

I googled your fermax, it seems to be diamonium phosphate and urea. So it is basically lacking everything else which the yeast needs. I would throw it away, tbh. as diamonium phosphate tends to leave a taste anyway. I would just buy myself Fermaid O and skip the go ferm.

I also would not use a champagne yeast, but a clean ale yeast like Nottingham or similar as it flocuulates much better than Wine yeasts.

I think fermaid k has all the nutrients that fermaid o does. The only difference being the nitrogen that is available to the yeast is an organic one and not DAP. It definitely has the dead yeast cell.

I think besides nutrients you also must use a wine yeast or maybe a mead yeast. I’ve never made a mead but I might be wrong but I think mead is not made of sucrose but glucose and fructose. Wine yeast should be able to produce more invertase as most of the sugar in a wine is sucrose. I’m making 2 5 gal batches with an ale yeast and it’s been slow 3 weeks in and still bubbling haven’t measured the gravity but it’s still fermenting slowly. Wine yeasts work much better.

My next 2 batches will be a side by side comparison of 1118 and dv10 which is supposed to have low nitrogen requirements.
I’ll post which one works better.

EDIT: looks like the only difference is that fermaid o has only organic nitrogen. Whereas fermaid k has DAP and organic nitrogen. Fermaid O was made I think so that u could pitch you’re nutrient as the same time as yeast especially dry yeast and not necessarily a better yeast nutrient.

From Scott laboratories

Fermaid[emoji768] K is a blended complex yeast nutrient that supplies ammonia salts (DAP), free amino acids (organic nitrogen derived from inactivated yeast), sterols, unsaturated fatty acids, key nutrients (magnesium sulfate, thiamin, folic acid, niacin, biotin, calcium pantothenate) and inactive yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

I think fermaid k has all the nutrients that fermaid o does. The only difference being the nitrogen that is available to the yeast is an organic one and not DAP. It definitely has the dead yeast cell.

I think besides nutrients you also must use a wine yeast or maybe a mead yeast. I’ve never made a mead but I might be wrong but I think mead is not made of sucrose but glucose and fructose. Wine yeast should be able to produce more invertase as most of the sugar in a wine is sucrose. I’m making 2 5 gal batches with an ale yeast and it’s been slow 3 weeks in and still bubbling haven’t measured the gravity but it’s still fermenting slowly. Wine yeasts work much better.

My next 2 batches will be a side by side comparison of 1118 and dv10 which is supposed to have low nitrogen requirements.
I’ll post which one works better.

EDIT: looks like the only difference is that fermaid o has only organic nitrogen. Whereas fermaid k has DAP and organic nitrogen. Fermaid O was made I think so that u could pitch you’re nutrient as the same time as yeast especially dry yeast and not necessarily a better yeast nutrient.

From Scott laboratories

Fermaid[emoji768] K is a blended complex yeast nutrient that supplies ammonia salts (DAP), free amino acids (organic nitrogen derived from inactivated yeast), sterols, unsaturated fatty acids, key nutrients (magnesium sulfate, thiamin, folic acid, niacin, biotin, calcium pantothenate) and inactive yeast.

I am quite aware of the differences between fermaid o and k, I made some meads. Both nutrients have been used in recent mead protocols, but all of them prefer fermaid o nowadays. It doesn't leave a flavour and you are not in trouble if you overdose a bit or if you're last addition is a bit late. With diamonium phosphate containing nutrients, this would be problematic as it would ruin the flavour in these two cases.

Making mead with ale yeast is quite common today. Almost all of my meads were mead with ale yeasts, I even made one with a lager yeast.

Simple sugars are easy to digest for all yeasts. You need specialists for longer sugars found in wort, the ones in wine and mead are easy to chew for the yeast.

 

[Goyagon]

I am quite aware of the differences between fermaid o and k, I made some meads. Both nutrients have been used in recent mead protocols, but all of them prefer fermaid o nowadays. It doesn't leave a flavour and you are not in trouble if you overdose a bit or if you're last addition is a bit late. With diamonium phosphate containing nutrients, this would be problematic as it would ruin the flavour in these two cases.

Making mead with ale yeast is quite common today. Almost all of my meads were mead with ale yeasts, I even made one with a lager yeast.

Simple sugars are easy to digest for all yeasts. You need specialists for longer sugars found in wort, the ones in wine and mead are easy to chew for the yeast.

Ah alright your post made it seem like Fermaid K was siginificantly inferior to o. I don’t think adding fermaid k changes taste very much, except in sensitive yeasts again I have not experience in making meads. The amount of fermaid k doesn’t recommended doesn’t seem to very substantial compared to some recommendations that require much more of pure DAP. It must be noticeable though or else they would not have reformulated it. Mead makers probably have a better understanding on fermaid k and o.

I’ve only used fermaid k sparingly in wines and high gravity beers not particularly for the added nitrogen but for the strengthening of the cell membranes for the higher alcohol content.

I believe that wine yeasts are the way to go for these sugar washes but I don’t know for certain. My ale yeast ones are going pretty slow but I am using enough 8 lbs of sugar instead of a lower amount. I assumed it was because ale yeast do not normally need to produce invertase. It hasn’t gotten stuck yet though.

 

[Miraculix]

Ah alright your post made it seem like Fermaid K was siginificantly inferior to o. I don’t think adding fermaid k changes taste very much, except in sensitive yeasts again I have not experience in making meads. The amount of fermaid k doesn’t recommended doesn’t seem to very substantial compared to some recommendations that require much more of pure DAP. It must be noticeable though or else they would not have reformulated it. Mead makers probably have a better understanding on fermaid k and o.

I’ve only used fermaid k sparingly in wines and high gravity beers not particularly for the added nitrogen but for the strengthening of the cell membranes for the higher alcohol content.

I believe that wine yeasts are the way to go for these sugar washes but I don’t know for certain. My ale yeast ones are going pretty slow but I am using enough 8 lbs of sugar instead of a lower amount. I assumed it was because ale yeast do not normally need to produce invertase. It hasn’t gotten stuck yet though.

Ale yeast has significantly higher nutrient demands than wine yeast. Did you take this into account with your slow going bewerages? Also step feeding speeds up the process and last but not least, different ale yeasts are more suited than others, for this type of "misuse". Generally the high abv tolerant strains are better as they do not start to slow down that easily after the abv reached a certain level.

 

[Goyagon]

Ale yeast has significantly higher nutrient demands than wine yeast. Did you take this into account with your slow going bewerages? Also step feeding speeds up the process and last but not least, different ale yeasts are more suited than others, for this type of "misuse". Generally the high abv tolerant strains are better as they do not start to slow down that easily after the abv reached a certain level.

I did not account for that. It’s was an experiment to see if and how it would make it different. I’m ordering some fermaid o and I’ll see if any additions added now effect the health or speed of fermentation since you suggested it’s less likely to notice overdosing.

 

[Miraculix]

I did not account for that. It’s was an experiment to see if and how it would make it different. I’m ordering some fermaid o and I’ll see if any additions added now effect the health or speed of fermentation since you suggested it’s less likely to notice overdosing.

Use the tosna calculator linked to by @RPh_Guy above, this way you get an idea of how much might be missing. Next time, go from scratch with that calculator, if using spoiled brats like ale yeasts.

Remember to select "lager/ale yeast " from the drop-down menu!

 

[eric19312]

Use the tosna calculator linked to by @RPh_Guy above, this way you get an idea of how much might be missing. Next time, go from scratch with that calculator, if using spoiled brats like ale yeasts.

Remember to select "lager/ale yeast " from the drop-down menu!

Is there any chance that calculator is broken? When I put in Fermaid-k, 5 gallons, OG 1.035, and select any yeast it advises 5 grams yeast and 3.3 grams nutrient spread over 4 additions of 0.8 grams each.

 

[Miraculix]

Is there any chance that calculator is broken? When I put in Fermaid-k, 5 gallons, OG 1.035, and select any yeast it advises 5 grams yeast and 3.3 grams nutrient spread over 4 additions of 0.8 grams each.

Maybe, or maybe it is the very low OG that somehow affects the calculation in a weired way. Try it with a more normal mead strength like number, like 1.1 or something like that.

OK, tried it with your values, try the "other high N demand yeast" directly above the Ale/Lager yeast to see a difference.

 

[eric19312]

So 3.3 grams is enough nutrient?

 

[Miraculix]

So 3.3 grams is enough nutrient?

Depends on the yeast and on the rest. I would probably choose the "high N demand yeast", just to be on the safe side and take the result from there.

 

[txtaquito]

i'm leaning towards trying to ferment cane sugar water, so i'm looking at 5.5 gallons water roughly 5# of sugar, additional yeast nutrient and energizer.

would I be better off using s-05 or a wine yeast for this? I have a few different strains of each, but being at work I couldn't say off hand what they are. I figure i'll run this on the same line I usually run soda as it's already set up in the kegerator for 30 psi.

Ive done a lot of reading on the subject and actually extracted some information from a local brewing company that makes this "sugar wash". The online consensus of water type is RO if you can so that it ferments clean but after trying both, tap water (depends on YOUR tap water - they vary esp if it contains chloramines which do not precipitate out of a boil like chlorides do) gives it a white wine / green apple character which, to me, is a free flavoring in and of itself. Use clean fermenting yeast like ec-1118 and other champagne varieties. I also blend in a little us-05 for some of its character contribution. Nutrients, energizers and aeration are key. Its not a bad filler when a tap runs dry and there's no brew day on the books for a bit. Its not bad stuff actually although I prefer beer. Watch for the fermentation stall. If it does, whip up another starter with lots of nutrients and pitch again. It will resume.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thinking to try something like @Andrew Hodgson Looch, but with Meyers lemons or oranges from the backyard so a LeMooch or an Oooch.

I have some things from when I made a BOMM that are like 3 years old. Everything was sealed but stored at ambient temp. What is the shelf life on Yeast nutrients?

I have a bottle of Carlson Yeast Energizer, Acid Blend, pectin enzyme and some Go Ferm. Also have a bag of white wine tannins.

Is yeast energizer the same as Fermaid-K?

 

[ba-brewer]

I made a small batch to feel things out.

20min boil
12oz corn sugar
Zest of 3 Meyers lemons (maybe too much) 5min
7gm citra 5min
1gm S-33 yeast
1.3gm go-ferm
.6gm fermaid-K

2 days in attenuated only about 45%, smell like Country Time Lemon-aid in the chamber.

 

[applescrap]

Awesome to see the thread growing and to see what everyone is learning. Havent checked in in a while but still havent tried making some myself. I love that pineapple seltzer recipe. There is a new one here by oskar blues that my wife says is good. I am curious, is everyone having attenuation problems? Ale vs ec 1118 and also nutrient amount. I am going to follow that recipe. 2 tsp nutrient per gallon and ec 1118, and glucoamylase?!

Anyone know the gluco amount that I should add, I cant remember. All I know is I am tired of paying for my wifes sugar water and its time to make some!

 

[sethga]

Thanks for the ideas and thread everyone. Interested to see how this comes out.

Imported the XML that Schlenkerla provided.. did everything as specified, except a few had mentioned the fruit flavor isn't too strong - added a little bit more peach puree.

Have a batch going now to see what it tastes like and if the females will enjoy.
Will keep an eye to see if more nutrient is needed along the way as suggested. OG was 1.041.

 

[ba-brewer]

Put my LeMooch in a mini keg today. A cold flat sample tasted like flavored mineral water, not too bad, quite clean no off flavors. Was thinking I might had over done the amount of zest after tasting a few mid ferment gravity samples but I think it is OK. Have it carbing now, will try a bubbly sample in a day or two. The flavor is light enough I think it would take some sort of additional flavorings well.

Started at 1032 and fermented down to 0.997(3points below zero), so about 4.5%ABV.

Forgot to add the acid blend, hoping/thinking maybe the carbonic acid might be enough.

The pic is after about a 3week ferment and couple day cold crash with gelatin added. Slight green color from hops I think, hydro sample it was hardly noticeable.

 

[sethga]

Kegged this one up and carbed.
Took a quick sample, tastes pretty good. Not overly fruity but basically some alcoholic water as intended. Good stuff, have a nice base to add on to. Thanks again.

 

[sethga]

Sorry for the double post.. here's mine finished up.
Comments from the testers.. tastes good. Not "fruity" enough. Like a super light beer due to the hops. (my hops were 4.9% AA northern brewer).

Plan on somehow kicking up the fruity flavor next time around. Considering using some flavoring (soda stream style) or berries instead of peaches possibly?

 

[ba-brewer]

I carbed up to 30psi and realized I did not have enough beer line to pour it so had to shake the carb out of it. Tastes like mineral water with a slight lemon flavor.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Attempting the version on Austin homebrews website. I already had everything here, so throwing it together on the stove. Swmbo can’t be too mad. I’m brewing it for her. [emoji12]

 

[tnbrewer371]

I’ve nailed this recipe. Super simple. Cheap. My wife loves it. Much better price than 1.50$+ a can. 4 gallons for under ten bucks.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

I’ve nailed this recipe. Super simple. Cheap. My wife loves it. Much better price than 1.50$+ a can. 4 gallons for under ten bucks.

what recipe did you use?

 

[tnbrewer371]

I’m going to post a thread in the recipe section of my complete and detailed process and recipe.

 

[tnbrewer371]

I honestly just winged it off the instructions northern brewer has online for their hard seltzer kit.