Sparging too fast?

[motobrewer]

I've just started fly sparing and I'm having some efficiency issues. I get great mash conversion and first runnings but my problem is I get to my pre-boil volume and my final runnings are still really rich (1.016).

So I'm getting terrible boil kettle efficiency. I could just keep sparging but I don't want to sit there and boil for 2 hours. Am I sparging too fast? Incorrectly?

 

[doug293cz]

How long does it take you to sparge, and for what batch size? Can't compare to typical fly sparge times without knowing your time.

Since your end of sparge runnings are relatively high SG, you probably don't have a channeling problem.

What is the dead volume of your mash tun? The more dead volume you have, the more high gravity wort can be retained there, and it could take extra sparge water to dilute the wort in the dead volume in order to get your final running gravity down where you want it.

Brew on

 

[motobrewer]

10 gallon batch, probably 30 minutes or so.

 

[hunter306]

I'd say you're sparging about half as long as you need to for that batch size. We do 12-13g into our BK and 10g out of the fermenter and I'm fly sparging for 60 minutes minimum (often 75-90).

 

[Terek]

too slow of a fly sparge. I had this problem when I started. I typically have a 45-60 min sparge time for a 5 gal batch. Thats getting around 6.5-7 gal in the BK. Try and slow things down. Slower is better

 

[motobrewer]

ug, i should stick with batch sparging!

thanks for the tips.

 

[Terek]

I like batch sparging too. But, I have found that fly gives a much better eff. I went from 70% to 85% when I started fly sparging. Personally I find the time invested is worth the price savings on grain. I love shaving a dollar here and a dollar there on my brews.

 

[doug293cz]

10 gallon batch, probably 30 minutes or so.

You might be going a little fast. Run offs of 1 qt/min, or lower, are generally recommended. For ten gallon batches, you should be shooting for a 45 min to 1 hr lauter.

You didn't answer about your dead space.

Brew on

 

[motobrewer]

You might be going a little fast. Run offs of 1 qt/min, or lower, are generally recommended. For ten gallon batches, you should be shooting for a 45 min to 1 hr lauter.

You didn't answer about your dead space.

Brew on

maybe a quart of deadspace in the mash tun

 

[doug293cz]

maybe a quart of deadspace in the mash tun

A quart doesn't seem like enough to cause a big efficiency problem. Most likely, just too fast.

Brew on

 

[KartRacer54]

I typically fly sparge for 60 minutes with 5 gal batch. Has worked well. My last batch last week had a few too many brews and wound up finishing sparge in 35 minutes. Missed my numbers, slightly low. I will be more attuned to the process in the next batch.

 

[LLBrewer]

I'd say you're sparging about half as long as you need to for that batch size. We do 12-13g into our BK and 10g out of the fermenter and I'm fly sparging for 60 minutes minimum (often 75-90).

Holy sh!t!!! Why in the HELL would anyone do this? Single infusion batch sparge. 5 minutes and damn the point or two of efficiency or why ever people still fly sparge at home brew scales.

 

[LLBrewer]

I like batch sparging too. But, I have found that fly gives a much better eff. I went from 70% to 85% when I started fly sparging. Personally I find the time invested is worth the price savings on grain. I love shaving a dollar here and a dollar there on my brews.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. An extra buck or two of grain is nowhere near enough $$ to offset the stupid time you are wasting.

 

[bragona71]

Might want to look at mash thickness when building water infusion for the recipe. I had a similar issue when I went to manifold instead of wire tube in my mash tun. I was at 1.25qt/lb and went to 1.50 it lowered my sparge volume and worked perfectly

 

[bragona71]

Holy sh!t!!! Why in the HELL would anyone do this? Single infusion batch sparge. 5 minutes and damn the point or two of efficiency or why ever people still fly sparge at home brew scales.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. An extra buck or two of grain is nowhere near enough $$ to offset the stupid time you are wasting.

I fly sparge because that's what I was taught I enjoy the hands on process, and it just works for me and a lot of us

 

[LLBrewer]

I fly sparge because that's what I was taught I enjoy the hands on process, and it just works for me and a lot of us

Well ok, but my brew day is already long enough though. I just can't imagine why people would spend an extra hour plus the extra equipment cost to save pennies per batch. Glad it works for you but seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Yooper]

Well ok, but my brew day is already long enough though. I just can't imagine why people would spend an extra hour plus the extra equipment cost to save pennies per batch. Glad it works for you but seems ridiculous to me.

You've made your point. More than once. We all do what works for us, and it's not 'ridiculous' unless you've tried it on the same equipment and decided that it was a failure.

Just because you do things differently doesn't mean that others are wrong. Please be mindful of that. Thank you.

 

[LLBrewer]

You've made your point. More than once. We all do what works for us, and it's not 'ridiculous' unless you've tried it on the same equipment and decided that it was a failure.

Just because you do things differently doesn't mean that others are wrong. Please be mindful of that. Thank you.

I never said anyone was wrong. It's 'ridiculous' because it takes much more time and effort than batch sparging for the same result. If someone shows me a more efficient way to make beer without a drop in quality then I'd love to hear that my method is also ridiculous. I'm all about efficiency without sacrificing quality.

 

[LLBrewer]

You've made your point. More than once. We all do what works for us, and it's not 'ridiculous' unless you've tried it on the same equipment and decided that it was a failure.

Just because you do things differently doesn't mean that others are wrong. Please be mindful of that. Thank you.

Ok I should qualify the statement a bit. It's ridiculous unless you actually want to spend more time on brew day. Some people do I guess. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Yooper]

Ok I should qualify the statement a bit. It's ridiculous unless you actually want to spend more time on brew day. Some people do I guess. Nothing wrong with that.

OR
you have a system (like mine) where the dumb thing clogs in the bottom draining part if you batch sparge and disturb the grain bed (fixed with a BIAB bag)

OR
you like to FWH for the 45 minute it takes to sparge so that the wort in the boil kettle is steeping with hops

OR
You actually do get a huge efficiency bump and find it's more reliably so

OR
you clean some equipment during this sparge and it takes 30 minutes or more to get to a boil anyway so that isn't really "extra 30 minutes"

OR
People have systems set up ideally for continuous sparging and can do it pretty much 'hands off' by using two pumps instead of physically vorlaufing twice and moving hoses and things

Etc.

Let's not use words like "stupid", "ridiculous", " Why in the HELL would anyone do this?", etc. That sounds quite demeaning, and many of us do have reasons for doing what we do that you may not understand or grasp because you don't know all of our equipment.

 

[LLBrewer]

OR
you have a system (like mine) where the dumb thing clogs in the bottom draining part if you batch sparge and disturb the grain bed (fixed with a BIAB bag)

OR
you like to FWH for the 45 minute it takes to sparge so that the wort in the boil kettle is steeping with hops

OR
You actually do get a huge efficiency bump and find it's more reliably so

OR
you clean some equipment during this sparge and it takes 30 minutes or more to get to a boil anyway so that isn't really "extra 30 minutes"

OR
People have systems set up ideally for continuous sparging and can do it pretty much 'hands off' by using two pumps instead of physically vorlaufing twice and moving hoses and things

Etc.

Let's not use words like "stupid", "ridiculous", " Why in the HELL would anyone do this?", etc. That sounds quite demeaning, and many of us do have reasons for doing what we do that you may not understand or grasp because you don't know all of our equipment.

Right I get it. Here's the incontrovertible truth though: batch sparging takes less time, equipment, and is simpler and less error prone. Whatever 'huge' bump in efficiency you MIGHT get is easily made up in an extra buck or two of malt. Those are the facts. To each his own though...

 

[jbaysurfer]

in·con·tro·vert·i·ble
ˌinkäntrəˈvərdəb(&#601l/
adjective
not able to be denied or disputed

Nearly everything you said is argumentative. Re-read the definition of incontrovertible, and please let people discuss the topic at hand. As a batch sparger, I'm interested in the actual answers to Motobrewers question.

 

[LLBrewer]

in·con·tro·vert·i·ble
ˌinkäntrəˈvərdəb(&#601l/
adjective
not able to be denied or disputed

Nearly everything you said is argumentative. Re-read the definition of incontrovertible, and please let people discuss the topic at hand. As a batch sparger, I'm interested in the actual answers to Motobrewers question.

"batch sparging takes less time, equipment, and is simpler and less error prone."

That statement is not argumentative and is incontrovertible. Yes I understand the word.

 

[b-boy]

Right I get it. Here's the incontrovertible truth though: batch sparging takes less time, equipment, and is simpler and less error prone. Whatever 'huge' bump in efficiency you MIGHT get is easily made up in an extra buck or two of malt. Those are the facts. To each his own though...

Yes - and BIAB people will argue with you about the inefficiencies of batch sparging. To each his own.... It's nothing to get bent out of shape about.

 

[Yooper]

"batch sparging takes less time, equipment, and is simpler and less error prone."

That statement is not argumentative and is incontrovertible. Yes I understand the word.

I've asked you (nicely) to stop. Aside from being insulting, you've added 0 to this thread.

Your opinion has been noted. Repeatedly. We all know how you feel. I don't normally continue to explain or ask nicely. When an admin asks you to cease, it would be a good idea.

Now, please move on to a thread that you CAN contribute to. Thank you.

 

[LLBrewer]

I've just started fly sparing and I'm having some efficiency issues. I get great mash conversion and first runnings but my problem is I get to my pre-boil volume and my final runnings are still really rich (1.016).

So I'm getting terrible boil kettle efficiency. I could just keep sparging but I don't want to sit there and boil for 2 hours. Am I sparging too fast? Incorrectly?

In an attempt to "add something" to this thread I will say that fly sparging requires a properly designed false bottom (another variable that is minimized by batch sparging). What are you using as a manifold?

 

[motobrewer]

a false bottom. how do you batch sparge?

 

[schematix]

I fly sparge 14G in about 25 minutes and get 92-93% efficiency. As long as you aren't channeling or side wall shunting you should get very close to maximum extraction, regardless of the speed. Going faster than your equipment allows though, will leak to a stuck sparge, channeling, or side wall shunting.

 

[Terek]

I fly sparge 14G in about 25 minutes and get 92-93% efficiency. As long as you aren't channeling or side wall shunting you should get very close to maximum extraction, regardless of the speed. Going faster than your equipment allows though, will leak to a stuck sparge, channeling, or side wall shunting.

do you use a herms system? I havent used one but i think the continuous circulation during the mash does what a fly sparge does. Since whatever happens during the fly that bumps eff. has already been done, you can just get it out of there.

 

[wmilas]

Sounds like you aren't fly sparging for long enough. I aim for 45-50 minutes when doing 5 gallons, 60 when doing 10, or a high gravity 5. When doing high gravity I'm usually collecting more runnings for an extended boil down so its not that I'm sparging slower, but sparging longer at the same rate for more volume.

As far as batch vs fly, On my herms system 2 batch sparging is only about 5 minutes faster that fly for me. And batch sparging is ALOT more effort while fly is set it and forget it. Fly sparging also results on ALOT less trub in my boil kettle along with a lot less effort of having to stir mash around. If I want to speed up batch I'd have to skip resetting the grain bed which causes a bunch of stuff to enter the boil kettle, which then causes a bunch of stuff to clog up my BK filter, blah blah.

I can spend 45 minutes cleaning stuff while my system happily chugs away. If I batch sparge I can't so i actually lose time batch sparging.