You'll have to excuse the exasperation. I don't tend to like processes that are more time consuming, more prone to error, and require extra equipment for no gain in anything whatsoever.
Sparging too fast?
- Thread starter motobrewer
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
You'll have to excuse the exasperation. I don't tend to like processes that are more time consuming, more prone to error, and require extra equipment for no gain in anything whatsoever.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
how do you add sparge water?
hanuswalrus
Well-Known Member
@LLBrewer How is your efficiency turning out with only 15 minutes on the sparge time? Are you just opening the valve and draining at full speed?? I've tried that but found that I didn't extract nearly as many sugars as I did when draining at slower speeds.
But for some of us there IS a gain. Not necessarily efficiency, nor in time savings- but in things like in my HERMS system we get greater wort clarity. It makes FWH more convenient and effective. There are other reasons to make certain choices besides time and efficiency %. I had mentioned earlier that my system would clog terribly (pull a vacuum through the bottom drain) if I batch sparged. That's a reason right there, which you seem to think is 'ridiculous' or 'stupid'. Trust me, dumping 27 pounds of grain and water that is 160 degrees out to unstick this (more than once, since I am a slow learner) meant that I was not eager to try batch sparging again. I have no extra equipment to continuous sparge, and since I sparge through my HERMS coil, it actually cleans the HLT and HERMS coil for me. To batch sparge (and I like doing it), I had to buy more equipment actually. I needed to buy a bag, to avoid the aforementioned stuck sparges.
Please remember to READ other's, before assuming that everybody has the same set up as you and if you could just show them the light that we would all change and do it your perfect way.
I love that you are sold on your technique. But the rest of us do things for some reasons that you don't seem to understand or value. That's fine- I'm not coming down on your for batch sparging at all- but you seem to think than if we don't think that our wort clarity and FWH (or whatever else our gains are), is "no gain in anything whatsoever", then you are either being particularly obtuse or simply rude, or perhaps you enjoy denigrating things which you do not understand.
I do not know which it is- but you've been asked more than once to knock it off. There will not be another polite request or any other warning.
Also, remember the topic here all along has been "Am I sparging too fast?" not "Please tell me why I should be convinced to change to batch sparging?"
You would not like it if you posted that your bottle capper broke a bottle and then other forum members would insult you and denigrate you and say things like, "Well, you should keg! Kegging is vastly superior to bottling. It's only a moron who bottles his beer. It's ridiculous to bottle. You must like the extra work", etc.
Stay on topic. Don't be contentious. And more importantly, when an admin of the forum tells you to "knock it off", unless you want to find a new forum to play in, I'd suggest complying.
Pretty much. Since I'm mashing in a bag I add the sparge volume, stir the mash, let it sit for a few minutes, and then open the valve ~3/4 open. I haven't noticed a decrease in efficiency.
Terek
"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
Its not any more time consuming, as i can clean while i sparge. It actually saves time over batch.
How is it more prone to error? Batch sparge is much harder. You have to measure to a T to get your boil volume correct. Fly sparging, you just run it till your kettle is full. Pretty strait forward.
The only extra equipment you need is a piece of vinal tubing . Im pretty sure most of us has this. A fly arm is not needed. I just drilled a hole in top of my cooler lid and stick the hose threw. Works perfectly.
All in all, im not sure why everyone does not fly sparge. Im my experience, its so much easier, saves time, and saves money. I went from 70% eff to 85%. Seems like a no brainer. Its like the old tv cookers, "set it and forget it!"
Not going after batch spargers. Do what you like, what is comfortable to you. If you start doing things out of your comfort zone, things tend to go horribly wrong in brewing. I mainly prefer fly as it is more involved. I brew cuz its fun. If i wanted to just get it over with in an hour, and start drinking, id use mr. beer kits. I prefer it to take all day. More fun that way. Most of the time, i set up brew days with my friend. Then we can each do 2 brews and spend 8-10 hours. Its an adventure. You start hashing out the details and worrying about time and costs, its more like a chore. Or worse, work. Have fun and have a homebrew
It's prone to error because you have to worry about sparge rate and channeling. You also need a properly designed MT with false bottom. With batch sparging you don't need to measure to a T. I certainly don't. You just heat up enough sparge water so that you're sure to hit you boil volume and then continue pull wort out of the MT until you reach the volume you want. If you mess up and don't get enough then just do another batch sparge.
BTW you're the first person to say it saves time. How long do you sparge?
Terek
"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
An hour, but im also preping for the boil, and cleaning everything while i wait. Also I just use the home made copper coil false bottom I used when I used to batch sparge. Works perfectly. And if you use fish tank hose, the flow rate is perfect no adjusting needed. It is A LOT easier than you think. It took me a while to try, but never looked back once i did
cantrell00
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2013
- Messages
- 840
- Reaction score
- 116
I admire your effort bro but this guy would argue that water isn't wet.
I fully expect a snarky reply to this post in 3, 2, 1......
kev211
Well-Known Member
Its too bad though, because this thread could have had some seriously useful information. Luckily though, I now know that batch sparging is way better hahaha. (From a batch sparger).
I am interested in knowing what everyone uses as their mash tun and what sparge method they use. Ive heard that cylindrical is best for fly sparging. Anyone use rectangular and had good results with it?
cantrell00
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2013
- Messages
- 840
- Reaction score
- 116
I am using a 10 gallon with a domed false bottom, fly spraying. EHERMS.
Low 90s extraction efficiency.
I used to batch sparge with a rectangular coole/bazooka with very good results.
I would think that fly sparring with a greater % of water resting vertically on the grain bed would produce a higher efficiency .
That is just a guess with no stats to back it up. A hunch more or less.
Low 90s extraction efficiency.
I used to batch sparge with a rectangular coole/bazooka with very good results.
I would think that fly sparring with a greater % of water resting vertically on the grain bed would produce a higher efficiency .
That is just a guess with no stats to back it up. A hunch more or less.
Terek
"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
What effort, and how is my comment an argument? I was answering a question. How about you read the entire thread before posting a smart ass comment, so you actually know what you are talking about. ( I guess its a smart ass comment, it doesnt even make sense)
He wasn't talking about you. He was referring to LLBrewer.
geoffey
Well-Known Member
Do NOT mess with the HBT admins! They have supernatural powers. You'll find yourself with mysterious stuck fermentations, bottle gushers, or God forbid your batch sparging will somehow end up making your brew day 2 hours longer...
Now, back to the topic (see how I'm not messing with the mods here?) I built a three vessel eherms system and had all kinds of problems with fly sparging. My efficient was inconsistent and brew days were 6+ hours. Time is means a LOT to me, so I changed to batch sparging, then BIAB and then I changed my system to a no sparge "Breweasy" clone. To ME, I find no sparge so much easier. But I've been very interested to read about how others here find fly sparging easier. Yooper makes some good points re FWH and so forth.
But the bottom line I think is that some people find different methods easier than others, and we all have different values regarding time vs additional grain cost, etc. I can easily see myself moving to fly sparging in about 10 years when the kids move out and I have more time on my hands.
He was referring to LLBrewer, not you!
EDIT: I went upstairs to make coffee, and apparently I was too slow to reply! b-boy beat me to it!
Terek
"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
He was referring to LLBrewer, not you!
EDIT: I went upstairs to make coffee, and apparently I was too slow to reply! b-boy beat me to it!
man, I feel like an ass hole. No wonder it didnt make sense to me, now it does :smack:
JC_Brewer
Active Member
Help me out here... FWH.
First wort hopping?
First wort hopping?
JC_Brewer
Active Member
Thanks.
I fly sparge as well. It takes me about an hour and my efficiency is good enough where I wouldn't change a thing. I won't argue that it's better than any another method but it works for me. I enjoy every minute it takes me to make beer.
LOL! Hope that goes well! I'm still waiting on that one myself. I think I'll be dead before that happens!
Back on topic, I fly sparge (gravity) and shoot for an hour whether it's a 5 or 10 gallon batch. I have had the unfortunate incident of grains getting under the false bottom in the MT and completely clogging, forcing a time-consuming process of sorta-batch-sparging 20 lbs of grains with strainers. This resulted in painfully low eff, but I just called the beer an "extra light", modified the false bottom in my MT so it wouldn't happen again, and moved on. Good times.
For those of you that recirc during mash, I assume that would cut down sparge time and help with efficiency. But do you do anything to keep grains from getting into your pump or do you just not worry about it? I really want to try this, and I have a pump I could use, but I'm just a little scared to try it.
boganll
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
- Messages
- 60
- Reaction score
- 19
I love first wort hopping
and the efficiency increase is enough to mean the difference between getting two batches out of one bag of base malt vs. picking up a new sack every brewday.
Good enough reasons for me to fly sparge instead of batch.
and the efficiency increase is enough to mean the difference between getting two batches out of one bag of base malt vs. picking up a new sack every brewday.
Good enough reasons for me to fly sparge instead of batch.
If this ever happens again, connect a tube to your outlet drain (if you don't already have one attached), and blow air into it. I use an air compressor, since the hose is right next to where I brew, but I've also just blown on it with my mouth. Either way has eventually unstuck even the most stubborn stuck sparges. Sometimes you need to Vorlauf and re-Vorlauf to get the grains out, but it'll eventually clear.
Yup. Tried the air. It was so bad it didn't work. It was completely packed when I took it all apart. I think somewhere in the process the false bottom got skewed and all the grains packed in there.
kev211
Well-Known Member
Ya, my last brew got stuck bad enough to where I had to hook up to the compressor. It was completely my fault though. I was about halfway through the mash when I realized I had forgotten to attach my bazooka screen. So about 10 layers of latex gloves and dang near burning myself later, got it attached and then the grains that were in it already stuck my vorlauf. Air compressors are awesome. Best piece of equipment in my garage
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
cantrell00
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2013
- Messages
- 840
- Reaction score
- 116
I think this is a great and informative post, so please take this one minor dissenting comment with a grain of salt: Batch sparging requires draining the mash tun completely of the wort then filling with your first "batch" of sparge water. I usually have this first runnings nearly at a boil by the time I drain the sparge water on my "batch". So I don't think the heating time is all that different in the two disciplines.
Sidenote: I actually do two batches when I batch sparge, and I have a direct fired mash tun with a pump to recirculate the wort. I oversimplified above, but I basically do a mash out while recirculating, than empty the Mash Tun, put my first batch in, recirc, empty and then the second batch, recirc, empty.
By the time I put that 2nd batch of wort into the boil kettle, 2/3rds to 3/4 of my total boil volume is at 200F
That's all academic though, thanks for the post. Was very thorough.
Gerry_P
Well-Known Member
This is funny. My last batch my technique was almost identical to this, pretty much by accident. My efficiency was 73%, which was much better than previous AG attempts. I thought I invented something, then yesterday I coincidentally I found this thread from 2008. Then, even more coincidentally, it's mentioned in another thread today. Whoa....
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
So, I did a long, slow sparge yesterday on a bock. 1 hour to collect 8.1 gallons (2 hour boil). My final runnings - 6P!
The funniest part was my mash efficiency was 81%. So I really don't know what to do about it.
What do your sparge arms look like?
The funniest part was my mash efficiency was 81%. So I really don't know what to do about it.
What do your sparge arms look like?
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
Brewed an ESB sunday. 88% MO, 12% medium crystal.
Did a proper mashout and a 45 minute sparge. 80% brewhouse efficiency. pretty happy with that.
Did a proper mashout and a 45 minute sparge. 80% brewhouse efficiency. pretty happy with that.
