Spa Panel Keeps Tripping

[jgoldsworthy]

I doubt this has anything to do with the issue, because the color of the wire wouldn't effect it's conductivity. However, it appears and is kind of scary that whoever wired the controller used white colored wire for the hot leads (and no black tape as an indicator either).

That aside, my 2 cents (take for what it's worth which is only 2 cents LOL) on troubleshooting would be start removing items (furthest from the breaker, which would be the element) from the mix until I the breaker doesn't trip, or I'm left with just the 30amp dryer plug and no wiring connected.

 

[NWMushroom]

Yeah well I'm back to my old issue now of the spa panel tripping whenever I connect it to the dryer outlet, except now the main breaker for the house trips in addition to the spa panel. This is without any load on the spa panel.

 

[lschiavo]

Whatever the issue is may be frying the gfci breakers.

 

[lschiavo]

I doubt this has anything to do with the issue, because the color of the wire wouldn't effect it's conductivity. However, it appears and is kind of scary that whoever wired the controller used white colored wire for the hot leads (and no black tape as an indicator either).

That aside, my 2 cents (take for what it's worth which is only 2 cents LOL) on troubleshooting would be start removing items (furthest from the breaker, which would be the element) from the mix until I the breaker doesn't trip, or I'm left with just the 30amp dryer plug and no wiring connected.

That's it. Process of elimination.

 

[dyqik]

Whatever the issue is may be frying the gfci breakers.

If the cable feeding the spa panel took the 100A current required to trip the house breaker, then I'd also inspect the plug wiring on the feeder cable to the spa panel, and check the conductor to conductor resistance of the feeder cable. It may have seen enough current to damage it. Then move on to checking the breaker and wiring connections in the spa panel. Anything that saw 100A of current may be damaged.

I assume that the dryer still works ok without tripping anything, so that the damage isn't in the house wiring or the dryer outlet.

 

[lschiavo]

Did you get it figured out?

 

[NWMushroom]

No, unfortunately not. I'm thinking of just calling it quits and figuring out a 120v system.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I'm no electrician but have added breakers in the panel...What about just running a few feet of wire from the main to the spa panel for testing.If nothing trips you've narrowed it down to the dryer line

 

[lschiavo]

Right. Don't give up. Troubleshooting is often a process of elimination. Think the circuit through and disconnect anything that could cause the problem. Reconnect things until you find the culprit.

If you pay shipping, I'll look at it for you. You won't get the satisfaction of fixing it yourself that way though

 

[NWMushroom]

Ha. The thing is I've disconnected all the load on the spa panel but it still trips. I'm at the point where I'm suspecting it's something to do with the outlet or power system in the house (remember I didn't change anything before moving and in my last house all worked perfectly).

At this point, I get scared just thinking of plugging the spa panel in since the trips are so aggressive (now taking out the main house breaker).

 

[lschiavo]

I think you have a dead short somehow. You need that meter.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Have you checked for Leprechauns under the stairs. Those little bastards will wreak havoc on new homeowners

 

[NWMushroom]

I have a meter, but don't really know what to do with it! I did measure the voltage in the dryer outlet:

h1 to neutral: 123v
h2 to neutral: 123v
h1 to h2: 248v

It was quite scary to do this since the prongs on the meter wouldn't reach into the outlet, so I had to pull the outlet out and measure the current on the wires connecting to the outlet. Squeaky bum time, indeed.

Have you checked for Leprechauns under the stairs. Those little bastards will wreak havoc on new homeowners

Shoot, I hope they don't mess things up for renters, too! I rent this place, another reason why I don't want to spend too much money on figuring this out!!

 

[lschiavo]

Perfect. That sounds right to me.

Now set you meter for continuity. It should either peg the needle or beep when you touch the meter probes together.

Turn the spa breaker off and test for continuity between all three stabs on the plug that goes to the dryer outlet. Turn the spa breaker on and test again. You should not have continuity between any stab either way if all loads are disconnected from the gfci breaker.

If that checks out, test continuity from h1 on the plug to red or black in the spa panel, h2 on the plug to red or black in the spa panel and neutral on the plug to the neutral bar in the spa panel.

 

[lschiavo]

I think I have this worked out. If a hot and neutral were swapped between the plug and the spa panel, you will get a dead short when you turn on the gfci breaker. I think. Let's see what your meter says. This is hurting my head

 

[lschiavo]

Bumming me out not getting to the bottom of this. I totally understand if you want to wash your hands of it NW. I am a geek though.

 

[raouliii]

.....
I've also checked my 'input cable' wiring of the 3 prong dryer plug to the 4 prong receptacle going into the spa panel and all looked OK.




Any other ideas?!

It sure seems like this is an input issue. Either the dryer outlet has an issue, although the voltage readings appear fine, or your input cable has a problem.

The two photos above are from the two ends of the SAME input cable? Any reason you are using a 4 prong plug/receptacle (NEMA 14-20) at the input to the spa panel? Other than maybe that's what you had on hand. How is the ground(green) wire isolated/connected in the 3wire end?

I have a meter, but don't really know what to do with it! I did measure the voltage in the dryer outlet:

h1 to neutral: 123v
h2 to neutral: 123v
h1 to h2: 248v
....

An additional voltage measurement that may be useful is to measure between neutral on the dryer outlet and the ground on a nearby 120VAC receptacle.

 

[NWMushroom]

Perfect. That sounds right to me.

Now set you meter for continuity. It should either peg the needle or beep when you touch the meter probes together.

Turn the spa breaker off and test for continuity between all three stabs on the plug that goes to the dryer outlet. Turn the spa breaker on and test again. You should not have continuity between any stab either way if all loads are disconnected from the gfci breaker.

If that checks out, test continuity from h1 on the plug to red or black in the spa panel, h2 on the plug to red or black in the spa panel and neutral on the plug to the neutral bar in the spa panel.

To be honest, I am scared to pull out the dryer outlet to measure things with the multimeter again. I wish the prongs just reached in, but they don't. I need to pull the outlet out and measure by touching the probe on the outlet terminal. This isn't a relaxing task for me!!

Let me see if I can work up some courage this week.

The two photos above are from the two ends of the SAME input cable? Any reason you are using a 4 prong plug/receptacle (NEMA 14-20) at the input to the spa panel? Other than maybe that's what you had on hand. How is the ground(green) wire isolated/connected in the 3wire end?

Same input cable.

I used a 4 prong input for 'future-proofing' should I have access to a 4 prong outlet in the future. Also, followed the accepting wiring diagrams here on HBT.

The ground in the 3wire end is visible in the photo - it's wrapped in black electrical tape.

 

[PeteNMA]

Flip the breaker off in the main panel before you pull the outlet. The cable should be plenty thick to hold it still whilst you measure, so get it positioned with the power off then turn the power back on to measure

 

[raouliii]

.....Same input cable.

I used a 4 prong input for 'future-proofing' should I have access to a 4 prong outlet in the future. Also, followed the accepting wiring diagrams here on HBT.

The ground in the 3wire end is visible in the photo - it's wrapped in black electrical tape.

Depending on how the spa input plug is wired and if that green wire is shorted to one of the hot conductors, it would result in the exact situation you are experiencing.

It's hard to get a good look at your photos since that image posting website presents them only a little larger than in your posts and adds a bunch of garbage photos to the page.