Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[sivdrinks]

I've seen others add lactose to the secondary without issue. It will definitely help the mouthfeel. 1.008 is gonna feel like pumpkin wine .

I would check your spice levels prior to doing the spice additions. If you used Sterling hops (which is what Pumking uses), it has a nice spiciness. I found that mind had a good spice level, even with my single addition of spices prior to flameout.

I made this last year but bigger and ruined with the GC extract. I'm a big fan of slightly over doing the ginger, nutmeg and vanilla. Maybe a whole pound of lactose though, don't want pumpkin wine

 

[Blue_Monkey]

I'm in the process of brewing the all-grain AHS Pumking clone recipe right now with a few minor changes:

Grains: 13.25 lbs Maris Otter
0.75 lb Crystal 150L
4.5 lbs Pumpkin (non-spiced canned)

Additional Sugars: 1.0 lb Piloncillo (Panela Sugar) @ 60 min.

Bittering: 0.5 oz Magnum @ 60 min.
Flavor: 1.0 oz Sterling @ 10 min.
Aroma: AHS Pumking Spice Pack (1 tsp Cinnamon, 1 tsp Nutmeg, 1 tsp Allspice,
1 tsp Whole Cloves) @ 5 min.

Misc: BrewVint Alcohol Boost @ 60 min.
Five Star Defoamer 105 @ 60 min.
BrewVint Yeast Fuel capsule @ 15 min.
Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 min.

Aeration: 2 min. w/O2

Yeast: The kit came with White Labs WLP002 but I accidently froze my starter, so I went to my LBS and bought 2 packages of Wyeast #1187 (Ringwood Strain).

At kegging add: 1 oz Vanilla extract powder

 

[Nike_Eayrs]

Alright, I am going to finally brew up an attempted clone this weekend.

14 lbs 2-row
1 lb biscuit
2 large cans pumpkin puree
lots of rice hulls
mash at 155 for 60 min (puree in strike water)

.5 oz magnum at 60
.25 sterling at 15
1 lb brown sugar at 10
1 tsp pumpkin spice at flameout

vanilla and other spices are going in at kegging, and I am going to play around with some combinations aged in vodka

as for the "crust" flavor, I am going to a cake decorating shop and I am going to play around with some different extracts

 

[waldzinator]

13.25 lbs Maris Otter

I like this idea a lot. Wish I woulda thought of it. You should get more depth of flavor...English biscuit. I may very well have to change for this next brew. I got a bunch of Crisp MO coming in from LHBS, since we are having a Brooklyn Brown Ale cloning competition. I was going to use the spare amount of some Brit pales and bitters...may need to divert.

 

[insanim8er]

Well im in search of an awesome pumpkin beer for my girlfriend, so I just finished reading this entire thread. I'm planning on making an attempt, but I've yet to try Pumking. I am going to pick up a bottle to see what I can come up with.

I read about the graham cracker flavor vs the butter nut..etc. I also read about the buttery flavor, and one posters comment about cap'n crunch.

I read that cap'n crunch is suppose to be brown sugar butter served on rice. The McCormick vanilla nut butter is almond, butter and vanilla...

Has anyone ever experimentd with those Nilla wafers? I know those things are often used as "pie crust" in ice cream and what not. And I feel the flavor is similar to what people describe.

I was thinking about mashing with the nilla wafers, but like i said, i havent tried pumking yet. Any thoughts?

 

[jaywhy]

Well im in search of an awesome pumpkin beer for my girlfriend, so I just finished reading this entire thread. I'm planning on making an attempt, but I've yet to try Pumking. I am going to pick up a bottle to see what I can come up with.

I read about the graham cracker flavor vs the butter nut..etc. I also read about the buttery flavor, and one posters comment about cap'n crunch.

I read that cap'n crunch is suppose to be brown sugar butter served on rice. The McCormick vanilla nut butter is almond, butter and vanilla...

Has anyone ever experimentd with those Nilla wafers? I know those things are often used as "pie crust" in ice cream and what not. And I feel the flavor is similar to what people describe.

I was thinking about mashing with the nilla wafers, but like i said, i havent tried pumking yet. Any thoughts?

Maybe try Pumking first before trying to replicate the graham cracker flavor. I had my first bottle of the season last week and decided I don't particularly care for the graham cracker anymore. I think it makes it taste artificial.

 

[pkrath84]

What's the consensus on this? Cloned? Or not cloned? Which recipe seems to have come the closest?

 

[bulldawgbrewer]

I think I've found the secret to cloning this beer: Pumpkin Pie Extract.

I've tried several clone attempts with different variations on recipes in this forum, and the big thing I've noticed is that all of them produce good pumpkin spice ales, but none have the aroma or flavor of Pumking. I work at a brewery and we use a lot of extracts in our flavored beers from Silver Cloud Estates with great results, so I looked through their website and sure enough they have a pumpkin pie extract. I've been pulling pints out of my already kegged Pumking clone and adding drops of this stuff and I gotta tell you, its got the Pumking flavor and aroma in spades. I'm going to do some more sampling with different strengths of this stuff, then I'll be sure to post how much per gallon I end up using.

A link to the extract website:
http://www.silvercloudestates.com/product/Product.aspx?id=807

 

[insanim8er]

I think I've found the secret to cloning this beer: Pumpkin Pie Extract.

does it add that "graham cracker" and diacetyl/butter flavor everyone talks about?

I'm really wanting to get a good pumpkin ale going, but I've yet to try the original. I'm waiting for my local supplier to get it in inventory. Apparently they changed distributors, so it's not on the shelves yet in Portland Oregon.

I did, however, do a hybrid recipe of the attempts on here along with the Brandon O graff. Went into the fermenter yesterday... we'll see how it goes.

 

[Nike_Eayrs]

I think I've found the secret to cloning this beer: Pumpkin Pie Extract.

I've tried several clone attempts with different variations on recipes in this forum, and the big thing I've noticed is that all of them produce good pumpkin spice ales, but none have the aroma or flavor of Pumking. I work at a brewery and we use a lot of extracts in our flavored beers from Silver Cloud Estates with great results, so I looked through their website and sure enough they have a pumpkin pie extract. I've been pulling pints out of my already kegged Pumking clone and adding drops of this stuff and I gotta tell you, its got the Pumking flavor and aroma in spades. I'm going to do some more sampling with different strengths of this stuff, then I'll be sure to post how much per gallon I end up using.

A link to the extract website:
http://www.silvercloudestates.com/product/Product.aspx?id=807

Any off flavors of sort? I actually saw that online, and was curious as to how it would work. I really think the secret to this recipe is artificial flavoring of some kind.....not that it is a bad thing, but that is just my .02.

 

[savylemons]

I brewed the recipe around page 58 this last weekend. I was concerned about the graham crackers lowering the mash temperature so blended them in with the two cans of pumpkin and roasted both for an hour in the oven. The graham cracker aroma filled my house while cooking it and after letting it cool off to around 160 i added it in the mash and the mash temp didn't change a degree. During the sparge process all the runoff smelled intensely of graham crackers, and i was hoping that the boil wouldn't boil off the awesome aroma but the post-boil chilled wort gravity sample smelled just like a freshly opened bag of graham crackers. I have the spices and vanilla bean soaking in vodka now which i will add to the keg by taste but I have a good feeling about this one. I'll update when its finished.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

I think I've found the secret to cloning this beer: Pumpkin Pie Extract.

I've tried several clone attempts with different variations on recipes in this forum, and the big thing I've noticed is that all of them produce good pumpkin spice ales, but none have the aroma or flavor of Pumking. I work at a brewery and we use a lot of extracts in our flavored beers from Silver Cloud Estates with great results, so I looked through their website and sure enough they have a pumpkin pie extract. I've been pulling pints out of my already kegged Pumking clone and adding drops of this stuff and I gotta tell you, its got the Pumking flavor and aroma in spades. I'm going to do some more sampling with different strengths of this stuff, then I'll be sure to post how much per gallon I end up using.

A link to the extract website:
http://www.silvercloudestates.com/product/Product.aspx?id=807

So any thoughts yet on how much of the pumpkin pie extract to use per gallon? I have thia ordered and on the way

 

[elixir]

I ordered the pumpkin pie extract too, i did gdlaws recipe but mine ended up like pumking clone on steroids im at 12.2% abv today. Pretty much pushing the limits of us05. The taste is very good but not sure if ill use the pumpkin pie extract on this batch, I have to make another batch to test it.

 

[bulldawgbrewer]

I get the diecetyl butter flavor, as well as graham cracker, and no off flavors if you don't over-do it. I haven't yet done the full batch, I'm waiting on it to carbonate in the keg right now. I wanted to add a little at a time after carbonation to make sure the aroma isn't overwhelming. When adding the extract to the flat beer before kegging, I was getting great aroma and flavor with around 5 drops per 12oz of beer. I tried doing more, but it goes from great to overwhelming really quickly so be careful. I'll probably scale up 4 drops per 12 oz to start, stir it up, pour a sample, try it, repeat, and go from there with small additions until its right.

 

[elixir]

I get the diecetyl butter flavor, as well as graham cracker, and no off flavors if you don't over-do it. I haven't yet done the full batch, I'm waiting on it to carbonate in the keg right now. I wanted to add a little at a time after carbonation to make sure the aroma isn't overwhelming. When adding the extract to the flat beer before kegging, I was getting great aroma and flavor with around 5 drops per 12oz of beer. I tried doing more, but it goes from great to overwhelming really quickly so be careful. I'll probably scale up 4 drops per 12 oz to start, stir it up, pour a sample, try it, repeat, and go from there with small additions until its right.

I want to use this at bottling, I bought a 4oz bottle. Maybe 1oz for 5 gallons? That website has some awesome extracts! I'm wondering if this is where cigar city gets some of theirs. They also have cookies and cream extract mmm.

 

[sivdrinks]

I get the diecetyl butter flavor, as well as graham cracker, and no off flavors if you don't over-do it. I haven't yet done the full batch, I'm waiting on it to carbonate in the keg right now. I wanted to add a little at a time after carbonation to make sure the aroma isn't overwhelming. When adding the extract to the flat beer before kegging, I was getting great aroma and flavor with around 5 drops per 12oz of beer. I tried doing more, but it goes from great to overwhelming really quickly so be careful. I'll probably scale up 4 drops per 12 oz to start, stir it up, pour a sample, try it, repeat, and go from there with small additions until its right.

How are there extracts made differently than Capella's? It's still artificial right?

 

[bulldawgbrewer]

How are there extracts made differently than Capella's? It's still artificial right?

They have a natural version as well as an artificial version. I'm not sure how its made or how it differs from Capella's...all I know is that we use a lot of their other extracts (not the pumpkin pie) at our brewery (Terrapin) for one-off's and if it works for a microbrewery then why not a homebrewer. I plan on doing the full-batch extract process on Monday, so I'll post my results then.

 

[raef]

They have a natural version as well as an artificial version. I'm not sure how its made or how it differs from Capella's...all I know is that we use a lot of their other extracts (not the pumpkin pie) at our brewery (Terrapin) for one-off's and if it works for a microbrewery then why not a homebrewer. I plan on doing the full-batch extract process on Monday, so I'll post my results then.

Its monday lol. Just looking forward to your next post.

 

[jnr1005]

I have read this entire thing today...whew. (Tried Pumking for the first time yesterday and wanted to cry that we only bought one bottle...) I am going to prep everything we need to attempt the recipe on page 57/58. I may tweak a few things based upon other comments, but even if its not exactly Pumking, I will be happy with a delicious pumpkin ale.

If anyone that brewed this wants to update on the end results...much appreciated

 

[mallob9]

I'm going to attempt one of these this weekend hopefully. Thanks for all of the information! I'll report back afterward.

 

[elixir]

I pulled a sample of my 12 abv% gdlaws clone and added a drop of the silver creek natural pumpkin pie extract. Aroma was incrediblely pumpking, but not so sure about the taste ( could be that i needed t add more extract). Im excited about using it on the entire batch next weekend when i bottle it.

 

[cuda6pak]

For those of us using quality vanilla extract rather than beans soaked in vodka, what's equivalent to two beans in 5 gallons? 2oz?

 

[HungusBrews]

If you are going the pumpkin pie extract route are ANY spices needed during the boil? I feel that this would be the best way to dial in your flavor profile.

 

[bulldawgbrewer]

Its monday lol. Just looking forward to your next post.

Sorry im late! I used 2.67mL for 5 gallons. Results will vary due to different recipes, OG, FG, bitterness, etc...so I would start with 2mL and taste, then add .25mL steps until its right.

 

[bulldawgbrewer]

Its about 20 drops per mil so if you dont have an accurate small syringe you can go off of drops--5 drops for .25 mils

 

[ErieShores]

We now have two members agreeing on the Silver Cloud Estates pumpkin extract. So, can we confirm that this is the secret to Southern Tier Pumking?

 

[SpeedYellow]

We now have two members agreeing on the Silver Cloud Estates pumpkin extract. So, can we confirm that this is the secret to Southern Tier Pumking?

LOL, heck no! Several guys said the Capella's Graham Cracker Extract was the secret, and that was a complete dud. If 5-6 guys get good results from the Pumpkin Extract and post recipes identifying other spices they used, then we'll be making progress. Until then, Pumking is NOT cloned.

 

[insanim8er]

Ok... I can finally chime in on this since I'm actually drinking one right now. The stores just got them in today.

Here's my thoughts. The bottle doesn't have anything on it that mentions natural or artificial flavor. Is it not required to be on the lable if a flavor made in a laboratory via natural or artificial means is used? I know the shocktop apple wheat says "natural flavors" in order to get that honey crisp apple flavor. So unless I'm wrong, I don't think they use any of the flavors mentioned in these posts: Graham cracker, butter nut, pumpkin pie...

On the other hand I do feel the nose is a bit artificial meaning I don't think they're getting it from grain alone, so there is something. I also get the dyacetyl others claim. So butter is there, but I think the main flavor profile you're wanting to copy is:

BUTTERED RUM.

In the nose I get the notes of a SWEET RUM aroma. I'm wondering if they extract their spices with rum and use enough rum to add the flavor as well as alcohol. I feel that's how they get the higher abv that contradicts their Plato numbers?

Overall the flavor is there, but to me it's so overwhelmed by an unpleasant bitterness. Maybe age will help? I got three bottles, so ill let the others age a bit.

It does get better as it warms

Over all I feel like I'm drinking a cold butter rum. I also feel it's a bit off the mark for what I look for in a pumpkin ale.

But I feel if you concentrate on producing high dyacetyl and use rum to extract your spices, you'll get this cloned.

Pumking spice profile from their website:

vanilla, clove, allspice, cinnamon, nutmeg

Here's the ingredients for one of the butter rum recipes I found that use allspice.

1 small slice soft butter
1 tsp brown sugar
*ground cinnamon
*ground nutmeg
*allspice
*ground clove
*Vanilla extract
2 oz dark rum
Hot water

It's all there...

I think everyone's been over complicating this recipe.

Use Ringwood to get the dyacetyl (I think they filter out the yeast to keep the dyacetyl present, so this may be a challenge to obtain for the average HBer)

Stick with what info they have. Those above spices (there is no ginger btw)

two row and crystal (since they only use two grains).

Then add rum to get the ABV to 8.6/9%

Split the batch up into Gallons

With a seperate tincture of all the spices, experiment with the levels of spices.

I'm pretty confident that will get you the results you're looking for.

My 2¢

Good luck guys!

Edit: I had a thought. I know this may be silly, but Harry Potter came out in 2001. Pumking has been brewed since 2007. Maybe the inspiration to this beer was the Harry Potter "Butter Beer." This came to mind when I typed, "buttered rum beer," into google. just a thought.

 

[sivdrinks]

Anyone thought of mashing with Nilla Waffers? DQ Pumpkin Pie Blizzard rocks.

 

[insanim8er]

Anyone thought of mashing with Nilla Waffers? DQ Pumpkin Pie Blizzard rocks.

Yes, I mentioned it a few posts back. I ended up making a pumpkin pie graff and mashed with nilla wafers. It's still fermenting, so haven't been able to test it yet.