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Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

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Swiller

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Well, I guess that's up for debate but I just don't understand why everyone wants to clone something that they can't possibly clone.
How can you say it can't be cloned? So what if they put something in it. Someone could figure it out. They've already been trying with garham extract and vanilla butter nut ... It's not impossible
 

MrSnacks

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How can you say it can't be cloned? So what if they put something in it. Someone could figure it out. They've already been trying with garham extract and vanilla butter nut ... It's not impossible
It's not impossible but once you start branching out beyond traditional brewing methods and flavorings it gets exponentially more difficult.

My suggestion would be just brew the beer you want to brew and don't worry about finding the flavor packet Southern Tier uses.
 

Roadie

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My suggestion is for someone to get a job at ST and pursue a subrosa investigation of their ingredients/methods and then report back here!
 

schiddy

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I brewed this last year w / a buddy. We did about 12 gal and it was as good, if not better, than the commercial version (MHO).
I bought this years release in anticipation of brewing it again. However, Southern Tier has gone WAY over the top w/ cinnamon this year. It's almost undrinkable! You'll definitely need your Chapstick!
Must say I cannot recommend this beer to anyone!


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Recipe? What parts were better than commercial version? Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread.
 

jamsomito

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Had one of these:


Saw this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index5.html#post3412084

Now this is happening:


I only have a boil kettle, so I'm going to have to do this BIAB. I have 2 big muslin bags though, in case I need them. Still contemplating doing everything in the mash, or splitting up the pumpkin from the grains and doing 2 mashes, keeping the results of the first one in a fermentation bucket until the 2nd is done, then combining them.

Either way, I think I'm going to rig up some kind of pulley system underneath our outdoor stairs to let the bags drain. My last big grain bill was about 16lbs of grain, and holding that thing up full of water was a bear. Include the pumpkin to plug it up and keep it from draining well and I might fall into the kettle with the grains when my arms give out.

Pretty stoked for this.
Ok, so I just cracked open my first one. It's still pretty young, but overall it's very similar to Pumking. Sure, not an exact clone, but close enough for me. Really all I was going for was a delicious pumpkin spice beer, and this recipe doesn't disappoint. Really happy with this batch.

Things that seem off:
1. a bit thinner mouth feel than Pumking
2. mine came out a bit too clear. the Pumking I'm referencing was cloudier without a doubt. (this is actually my clearest batch yet... go figure)
3. mine is fairly biscuit-y, but pumking is even moreso
4. I can't put a finger on it, but the taste is slightly off too. Almost like the flavors are coming from yeast esters/phenols instead of the other ingredients. I'm pretty sure my temps were great this time around, but it could very well be my process.

Otherwise, it seems really close. First taste revealed an almost exact flavor... the notes above were from later on after I had a chance to absorb it and reflect on it. It's a beautiful orange color, and a little extra cloudiness would have made it pop a bit even more like the real deal. I like the level of spiciness, but if you think it's too much, it's easy to halve the amounts in the recipe, or make a spice tea and mix to taste.

So yeah, really happy with it. But, I was just going for a good pumpkin spice beer, so it probably fits that criteria better than specifically a Pumking clone, but it's pretty close.

EDIT: FWIW, I ended up "mashing" the pumpkin with a pound of rice hulls on it's own, then did the grist mash in the pumpkin water in hopes of converting some of the pumpkin starches - two seperate bags, two seperate infusions. Maybe it's just me, but if you do canned pumpkin, it seems to just dissolve into the water. I didn't have any issues with it clumping up in my bag.

Also, my efficiency was quite low. I missed the target gravity by quite a bit, and ended up with 3.5 gallons because I didn't want to water it down anymore. This could certainly have a mouthfeel and flavor impact. Although, I got a bitterness from the real Pumking that I'm not getting here, so with a few more gravity points, it might even lose that bitter edge completely. *shrugs*
 

Chug

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Time for a resurrection of this thread! Anybody figure out ST's secret sauce?

I recently picked up a couple of four packs and it seems pretty tasty this year, perhaps a bit boozy but still better than last years in my opinion. Anyways, it reminded me of my past failed attempts at recreating this beer and wonder if it's even possible to replicate with what we have available as homebrewers.

I still say they have a proprietary flavoring they add to achieve that Pumking flavor. They say they only use two types of malt, 2 row and most likely crystal. Surely they're not going to get that unique flavor from those malts. And I cant imagine any spice combination achieving it either.
 
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I did a pretty close clone w/ a brew buddy a couple years ago based on input from early in the thread. We even got the pie crust extract just about perfect. The beer was great even w/ the high ABV.
I was going to do it again last year but Southern Tiers 2014 version was so awful it turned me off to pumpkin beers & I passed.
Thinking of giving my first attempt recipe another go though & just ignore the commercial version to avoid the disappointment.
 

carpediem1230

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First post here. Pumking is my favorite pumpkin beer, so figured I'd have a go at this. I have this happily mashing away at 157:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Pumking Inspired Ale
Brewer: Blue Bird Brewing Company
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.98 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.084 SG
Estimated Color: 11.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (1.8 SRM) Grain 1 84.5 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.2 %
2.50 lb Pumpkin (Mash 90.0 mins) Other 4 -
0.75 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 24.9 IBUs
12.0 oz Dememera Sugar [Boil for 60 min](2.0 SRM Sugar 6 4.2 %
4.0 oz Brown Sugar, Light [Boil for 60 min](8.0 Sugar 7 1.4 %
0.25 oz Sterling [7.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 2.6 IBUs
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.0 pkg Ringwood Ale (Wyeast Labs #1187) [124.21 Yeast 10 -
2.00 mg Pumpkin Pie Extract (Secondary 7.0 days) Spice 11 -
2.00 Items Vanilla Bean (Secondary 7.0 days) Spice 12 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 20.94 qt of water at 169.4 F 157.0 F 90 min
Mash Out Add 8.38 qt of water at 199.5 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 1.66 gal water at 168.0 F

I'm not attempting to directly clone this (hence the use of 3 grains), but this recipe (based on gwdlaw's) seems to be one of the most promising. I didn't want to add lactose, so compensated with a larger grainbill and higher mash temp. Shooting for a FG on the high end to make it a little chewy. I bought one pie pumpkin, sliced in half, baked at 350 for an hour with a little water added. Removed, skinned it, cubed it, put it back on the baking sheet, drizzled in honey and added a little bit of pumpkin pie spice, and baked another 30 minutes. I am a bit concerned about a stuck sparge (especially since I forgot rice hulls, doh!), so I threw the pumpkin in a hop bag. I let it steep as I was heating the sparge water, in hopes that a) I wouldn't lose mash temperature by adding cold pumpkin, and b) I'd extract some additional pumpkin flavor without getting gooey. Then added the pumpkin in bag to the mash. So far I'm not seeing anything looks like it may cause issue.

After a lot of research I bought the Silver Estates Pumpkin Pie Extract, and will add that to secondary, along with a tincture of two vanilla beans aged in spiced rum.

Hoping this turns out nicely for Thanksgiving.
 

brewski09

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Aside from the vanilla bean I'd say it sounds like a promising start. I may even just give this one a go if you think you got a good amount of pumpkin to come through.
 

carpediem1230

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Didn't get as much pumpkin as I hoped for but the final sample into the fermenter is delightful. Never used brown or Demerara sugar before, but guessing it's that and the victory malt that gives it a very nice flavor, like gram cracker crust. It's definitely a good base for the spices. If the final product follows suit I'll be very happy. If I did it again I think I'd mash the pumpkin a bit more, but probably still put in the bag. No issues sparging. Hit 1.081 OG so I'm happy.
 
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Based on the OP. Used canned pumpkin & pie crust extract. Added cinnamon & Vanilla bean along w/ extract to secondary.
 

MitchellF10

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Hey! I know this is an old thread, but it's that time again ... I wanted to throw my 2 cents in, in case no one else has said it yet:

I think they use peanut butter.

I say this because I tried a chocolate peanut butter porter by DuClaw called 'Sweet Baby Jesus', and it immediately reminded me of the strange flavor I could never put my finger on in Pumking. I may be wrong, but I'd definitely try it if I were to make a clone.

I am sipping on a Pumking right now, and if I think about 'that flavor' as being peanut butter I think it just makes more and more sense.

Best of luck!
 

brewski09

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Hey! I know this is an old thread, but it's that time again ... I wanted to throw my 2 cents in, in case no one else has said it yet:

I think they use peanut butter.

I say this because I tried a chocolate peanut butter porter by DuClaw called 'Sweet Baby Jesus', and it immediately reminded me of the strange flavor I could never put my finger on in Pumking. I may be wrong, but I'd definitely try it if I were to make a clone.

I am sipping on a Pumking right now, and if I think about 'that flavor' as being peanut butter I think it just makes more and more sense.

Best of luck!

Are you talking about a tiny amount to round the flavor or more significant?
 

MitchellF10

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Are you talking about a tiny amount to round the flavor or more significant?
I am thinking a more significant amount. The only reason I say this is because 'Sweet Baby Jesus' was specifically a Chocolate Peanut-Butter Porter, and their purpose would have been to highlight peanut butter as one of the main components. Plus, the amount of 'that taste' in it was very similar, in my mind, to Pumking. Granted, amounts may have to change per recipe.

Keep in mind that I say this as one who has not done the brew myself as I'm not sure I want to experiment with peanut butter for my non-Pumking-clone pumpkin beer. But, I've had interest in cloning this beer before, and if I were trying to do Pumking I would definitely include some. Maybe the powdered kind at the end of the boil.
 

Tricerahops220

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Tweaked the recipe slightly based on what I had and the LHBS had for grains and hops. The color looks on par. Aroma is definitely on par. Used US-05 dry and it never separated from one big clump which worries me so I will be monitoring it over the next few days.

FG: 1.042. Total yield was 5.75 Gallons. I tried to tweak the recipe so the alcohol content would be lower. Yeah, yeah, I know, how dare I! I guess I wont be killing the in-laws this thanksgiving.

Beautiful protein suspension (see below). Sweet yet surprisingly light wort. This should be interesting because I am not a pumpkin (baking/cooking) fan. I might be indulging in a few of these though.

3 lbs American Crystal 15L Malt
1 lbs American Carapils Malt
1 lb Breiss Pilsen DME (60 min)
1 lb Breiss Golden Light LME (60 min)
Pumpkin puree (15 oz can), (60 min)
1.0 oz. Magnum (Pellets 13.1% AA), 60 min
8 oz lb Brown Sugar (Lactose-30 min-late addition)
2 lb Briess Pilsen DME (30 min-late addition)
1/2 Whirfloc Tablet (15 min)
1 tsp Cinnamon, (1 Stick ground) (10 min)
1/2 tsp Nutmeg, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Ginger, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Cloves, (whole cloves, ground)(10 min)
1/2 tsp Allspice, (whole allspice ground)(10 min)
1 oz. Mt Hood (Pellets 6% AA), 10 min
Pumpkin puree (15 oz can), (10 min)
1/2 tsp Vanilla Extract (primary)
US-05

IMG_1828.JPG
 

icebrew

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I don't think they use peanut butter as I am highly allergic and I can drink pumpking no problem
 

MitchellF10

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I don't think they use peanut butter as I am highly allergic and I can drink pumpking no problem
Dang. That's a really good point. I supposed they'd have to mention that on the bottle too. If I ever attempt to clone this I might still give it a shot, though, as I at least want to disprove myself by tasting it.
 
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