Sour Weapon P

[Andrew Hodgson]

So I have been taking a look at if there is a practical, potentially fast pedio strain to use that gives a bit more complexity than lacto but without waiting the normal 12 month minimum for pedio/brett fermentations.

I read through the MTF Pedio page and ran across Sour Weapon P from Bootleg, touted as being fast-acting at low IBU's (I would start with 0).

I couldn't find a lot of anecdotal information about this strain (full disclosure I am not on Facebook but I am sure there are MTFers discussing it on FB).

Has anyone used this in a mixed ferm as the primary LAB? There is one 5 star review on the product page that claims someone pitched at 90, let it fall to mid 80's and got 3.47 pH in 36 hours. This would be the relative time-frame I am looking for and I would hope to achieve a more "rounded" or "deep" sour than the normal lacto souring.

Also Bootleg has been cited as saying their pitch creates bacteriocins but then they combo the pitch with Sour Weapon L and encourage co-pitching for a deeper sour flavor. Maybe their particular lacto isn't affected by the Pedios bacteriocins?

Just looking for pointers/experiences for using this LAB. I haven't even bought it yet so likely won't get it until their first pre-order after summer but I like to have some type of handle on these things before I use them. If this is really a Pedio that people find functions like Lacto I would be very interested in playing with it.

 

[brownni5]

Watching. Curious about this one too, especially the purported hop tolerance. But that co-pitch thing confused me, too. I was thinking of pitching this into a long term project that is like only a little sourness in. Am also thinking of picking up next time it's offered.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I am looking for and I would hope to achieve a more "rounded" or "deep" sour than the normal lacto souring.

I suggest you give "Renew Life Ultimate Flora" a try. It gives pretty substantial beneficial flavor (when it's not boiled). It's widely available in drug stores and grocery stores. Plus it stores well in the fridge, for at least a couple years, even past expiration.

It gives modest fruity flavors at lower temps and more funky flavors at higher temps.

more complexity than lacto but without waiting the normal 12 month minimum for pedio/brett fermentations.

You've seen my process for making mixed Sacc+Brett+Lacto sours in a few weeks, right?

Cheers

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

@RPh_Guy i actually can’t find your post with the quick funky beer protocol. I know I have read it over before. Help me out with which thread it’s in? Appreciate all your info as always.

 

[RPh_Guy]

@RPh_Guy i actually can’t find your post with the quick funky beer protocol. I know I have read it over before. Help me out with which thread it’s in? Appreciate all your info as always.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bottling-with-brett.667180/

I can't take credit... Look at MTF, mixed fermentation page, mixed in under 3 months.
I really don't know why more breweries or homebrewers aren't using this process.

Cheers

 

[Beerswimmer]

I used it once, it gave a very "deep" sour that had no flavors. No lactic twang. No citrusy flavors from what I could tell either. I would love to keep a starter of it next time. I would use it all the time but it's not offered very often and is more expensive than plantarum.

I believe it's worth the cost, and next time I order it I will keep some and grow it so that I always have it.

 

[Beer666]

I am about to start a solera and a portion of the base beer has been soured with sour weapon P. Is this likely to cause a problem with other LAB and therefore not be suitable for a solera?

The quote below is from their facebook page
" Some species of Pediococcus can produce antimicrobials called bacteriocins. These can inhibit and kill similar species of bacteria like Lactobacillus, Leuconostoc and other Pediococcus species...as well as pathogens like Listeria. "

 

[goodolarchie]

I am about to start a solera and a portion of the base beer has been soured with sour weapon P. Is this likely to cause a problem with other LAB and therefore not be suitable for a solera?

The quote below is from their facebook page
" Some species of Pediococcus can produce antimicrobials called bacteriocins. These can inhibit and kill similar species of bacteria like Lactobacillus, Leuconostoc and other Pediococcus species...as well as pathogens like Listeria. "

Their post really shows that L. Brevis did not do well in the presence of their SWP. However I have it in two of my barrels and I am a huge fan, because it's a real IBU-tolerant champ that has yet to get ropey on me. I have yet to find a strain of lacto that can really stand up to the 12-15 IBU's I throw at some of my mixed ferm beers. So many of them are touchy where I'll add one thing of fresh wort that had just aged hops, and it stops souring altogether. Blehch.

As for Lacto vs Pedio in a solera barrel, diversity is nice, but pedio can keep the acidity quite low and clean like you'd expect with lacto so it's not as big of a deal. There's always a kind of moving average effect of pulling and adding new wort. I have a house blend culture that I hit almost all my new beer with in stainless before I add it to barrels which contains lacto. It would be interesting to streak those barrels to see any of the L. Plantarum that I use is still around... I might post back in a year or two on that

 

[Beer666]

Their post really shows that L. Brevis did not do well in the presence of their SWP. However I have it in two of my barrels and I am a huge fan, because it's a real IBU-tolerant champ that has yet to get ropey on me. I have yet to find a strain of lacto that can really stand up to the 12-15 IBU's I throw at some of my mixed ferm beers. So many of them are touchy where I'll add one thing of fresh wort that had just aged hops, and it stops souring altogether. Blehch.

As for Lacto vs Pedio in a solera barrel, diversity is nice, but pedio can keep the acidity quite low and clean like you'd expect with lacto so it's not as big of a deal. There's always a kind of moving average effect of pulling and adding new wort. I have a house blend culture that I hit almost all my new beer with in stainless before I add it to barrels which contains lacto. It would be interesting to streak those barrels to see any of the L. Plantarum that I use is still around... I might post back in a year or two on that

a aqua
Thanks that is really helpful. I have a few batches where I got the IBU's too high so I bought some hoping I could avoid having to blend. I made a mixed fermentation using it with kveik and it has produced a less aggressive acidity but I don't have a ph meter to take a reading.
On a side note mine has a pellicle growing in the starter and fermenter. Should this happen? Fairly sure I did not contaminate it. My white labs pedio does the same.
I would be really interested to find out if there is any lacto left in your barrel as well.