Something isn't right - Need some advice

[Newbeerguy]

I think I just ran into my fist major snag....I'll take it from the top:

About 2 weeks ago I bottled my AHS Sam Adam's Clone. While I was racking to the bottling bucket I noticed a strong smell of vinegar/spicy/fruity. Thats the best way I can describe it. I thought it may be because I dryhopped for 3 weeks.
Today I was racking my AHS American Bock from my fermenting bucket (same bucket I used for the Sam Adam's Clone) to the secondary. I opened the lid of the bucket and wow really smelled funny. Distinct cidery/vinegar/fruity smell. It was very strong. I took a pic of it, to me it doesn't look like anything was a wrong.

I checked the S.G. and it was 1.014. O.G. was 1.061. So it was spot on there. Also I fermented both of these at 51 degrees (temp controlled). I tasted the hydrometer sample and it wasn't good....It tasted almost carbonated. Actually when I poured the sample in the test tube bubbles were rising and a head was forming. But back to the taste. To me it tasted acidic. Like there was a carbonic bite to it. I could definatly taste vinegar. Kinda fruity but not like hops fruity. I never tasted anything like it before.
Well curiosity got the best of me and I opened one of the Sam Adam's clones. It too had the same distinct smell and taste the bock did, although not as strong.

Does this sound like an infection? Ehh this is frustrating...I went ahead and mixed 1 cup bleach to 5 gallons of water and put it in the fermenting bucket. I also put all my hoses, cups, measuring spoons, funnels, bacically all my plastic brewing equipment in there just in case there maybe something living in it.

What throws me off is I made A PTE clone and I opened a bottle of that too fearing the worst, but much to my liking it was fine (flat, but good). I didn't ferment that in the bucket, I used a carboy for that one, but shared all the other tools for racking, bottling, ect.

My sanitation regiment I feel is great. I always use fresh Star San and never leave equiment dirty. Cleaning on the other hand maybe where I am falling behind. I use a "dobie" with hot water to clean everything out. Maybe I am scratching the bucket? Or not getting everything? I make sure it is clean to the eye then Star San it. Ususally I leave about a gallon of the Star San in the bucket till I use it again.

Sorry such a long read, but I really would like to nip this in the butt so I don't waste anymore beer.

Any suggestions?

 

[Newbeerguy]

Bumping this up to try and get a reply so I can sleep a little easier tonight

 

[Want2Brew]

It may just be young and green. I have tasted a cidery taste/smell in young beers before, not sure about vinegar though. The picture does not look out of the ordinary to me. If in doubt bleaching every thing is the rite thing to do. give it some time and see what happens, I think that is about your only option at the moment. Hope it all comes out ok.

 

[Want2Brew]

P.s. I hit all my equipment with bleach every 4th batch or so just for good measure, use star-san other wise.

 

[brewagentjay]

I'd love to help but I haven't (knocking on wood right now) had an infection yet....Your photos look normal to what I see. Your description is a bit strange. I do get s slight sweet flavor to my samples and green beer so far.....

 

[whatsleftofyou]

Are these your first lagers? Lager yeast emits a ton of weird aromas that ale yeast doesn't, but will clean itself up.

 

[hairy]

Lager emits lots of sulfur compounds but it shdn't taste like vinegar. Vinegar usually signals an infection and this doesn't go away with conditioning. If you want, you can track how the taste changes every week or so. If it keeps getting worse, i am sorry to say this, you shd toss it.

 

[whatsleftofyou]

Agreed, missed the taste portion of his post.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

I'm kinda shooting in the dark here, since I don't make lagers, but with the temperature that they're fermented at there can be a fair amount of CO2 dissolved in the beer even without external pressure being applied (I think something like 1.2 volumes.)

That combined with the Rhino Farts, Unicorn Farts, and miscellaneous other unusual smells that lagers are renowned for making while they're doing their magic might account for the odd flavors that you're encountering.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Are these your first lagers? Lager yeast emits a ton of weird aromas that ale yeast doesn't, but will clean itself up.

No, this is my 4th lager. The Sam Adam's clone was my third. I should also say that both of these beers sat in the primary for 1 month. My other two lagers sat just as long but in a carboy. Those turned out just fine. The picture looks normal to me too.

 

[Yooper]

How about starters? Any chance they got contaminated? It does sound like a contamination issue. How long did fermentation take to get started? Did you pitch warm and then lower the temperature?

I only had one infected batch so far, and I traced it back to a probable contaminated lager yeast starter.

As you know, lagers may smell sulfury, but not fruity of like vinegar.

 

[Newbeerguy]

How about starters? Any chance they got contaminated? It does sound like a contamination issue. How long did fermentation take to get started? Did you pitch warm and then lower the temperature?

I only had one infected batch so far, and I traced it back to a probable contaminated lager yeast starter.

As you know, lagers may smell sulfury, but not fruity of like vinegar.

All starters were 3 liter starters on stir plates that I decanted. I pitched the slurry in at 51 degrees. It took off fermenting in about 8hrs. My other lagers I made with the same size starter and same process. These just have a real strong smell and tasted of vinegar.

 

[Newbeerguy]

I also forgot to add that I do not wash or reuse yeast. All of the starters were prepared with new fresh yeast. I step up each starter twice, but I am very careful with my sanitation there too.

I've been racking my brain to see where a problem could of started and the only thing I could come up with is back when I was fermenting the Sam Adam's Clone (my third lager), the airlock grommet broke in half and fell into the beer. I didn't have access to another grommet so I just pushed the airlock into the hole and secured it with some electrical tape. Once I racked off that batch I bought a new grommet and used it for the Bock.

It sounds like an infection to me. I hope I am wrong, but I got a bad feeling that I'm not. Say it is infected, what can I do to clean all my equipment? Like I said before I put all of my plastic stuff into bleach water and it's been soaking overnight. Should I do anything else? Bleach, rinse well, oxy clean, rinse well, star san? I really want to make sure I don't ruin anymore beer. All my gear is less than 2 years old. I just replaced all hoses late last year.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Anyone got any ideas? I just don't want to possible ruin another batch. I just got done rinsing all the equipment from the overnight bleach soak. What should be my next step? Just sanitize and hope I got everything?Also thanks for the help I received so far!

 

[ChshreCat]

Smells funny and tastes weird? Sounds like you cloned Sam Adams to me!

Kidding!

Sounds like contamination to me as well. Replace anything plastic that you can. Bleach everything else.

Nuke it from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Smells funny and tastes weird? Sounds like you cloned Sam Adams to me!

Kidding!

Sounds like contamination to me as well. Replace anything plastic that you can. Bleach everything else.

Nuke it from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.

I needed that. Live and learn I suppose. Time to get to cleaning.