softened water

[mosyslack]

For those of you with water softeners.... or any other opinions/experts/educated guesses. Have any head problems with your beers? At least compared with those without? I have usually used half of my water from the store (spring water usually), and half from the pipes, with some additives just to have "something" to it. Gypsum is typically what I have been using. Since I have gotten the softener system, the head on my beers have been lacking. I think I had made 4 batches before I made the switch to AG & water softener. I made the switch from extract to AG at about the same time I got the softener, fwiw.

All of my mashes (sp?) have been a 2 stage batch sparge... mash in at 152-154F, then sparge twice at 168F. I did an IPA that came out fantastic, but to get a decent head to it, I had to pour somewhat "aggressively" to get anything out of it... at least for a homebrew. Any ideas, suggestions?

 

[Saccharomyces]

I mix 2:1 soft to hard water. I analyzed my water report, followed the section in HowToBrew about water.. I sub 2 parts sodium for calcium and magnesium, divide everything else by 3 on my water report, and then adjust with gypsum and add 5.2 stabilizer. Works fine.

Using 100% softened water didn't work so well. Having some hardness seems to really help.

- Eric

 

[user 4295]

A water softener replaces the calcium and magnesium ions in the water with sodium ions. Since sodium does not precipitate out in pipes or react badly with soap, both of the problems of hard water are eliminated (scale buildup and sticky soap scum). To do the ion replacement, the water from the well runs through a bed of small plastic beads or through a chemical matrix called zeolite. The beads are covered with sodium ions. As the water flows past the sodium ions, they swap places with the calcium and magnesium ions. Eventually, the beads contain nothing but calcium and magnesium and no sodium, and at this point they stop softening the water. It is then time to regenerate the beads.

Regeneration involves soaking the beads in a stream of sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a very strong brine solution and flushes it through the beads (this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the beads and replaces it again with sodium. The remaining brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a drain pipe.

I'm sure that some will disagree, but I feel that softened water is not good for use in beer making because it replaces the ions you want (calcium, magnesium in the right concentrations for the given beer style) with sodium ions. Sodium is a required flavor ion, but not in the concentrations that are found in softened water.

What you can do is take your brewing water after the sediment filter (if you have one) and before the softener. If there is no provision to tap into the water supply before the softener, it wouldn't be too much trouble to put one in. After that, send a sample to Ward Lab to determine your water chemistry. It costs $16.50 for the W-6 Household mineral test. It will tell you the concentrations of all the ions that homebrewers need to know about.

Here are the results of a water analysis someone posted on here some time ago. They had a water softener and they took a sample before the softener and one after the softener.

OK got some water results from Ward for my well.

Well w/ Iron Filter
pH 7.6
Sodium, Na 20
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 112
Magnesium, Mg 53
Total Hardness, CaCO3 501
Nitrate, NO3 -N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4 -S 10
Chloride, Cl 121
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 425
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 349
Floride, F 0.22
Total Iron, Fe 0.05

Well w/ Iron Filter & Softener
pH 7.5
Sodium, Na 232
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 1
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 3
Nitrate, NO3 -N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4 -S 10
Chloride, Cl 105
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 432
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 354
Floride, F 0.24
Total Iron, Fe 0.05

You can see that the softened water removed just about all of the Ca and Mg and replaced them with sodium. Sodium present at levels higher than 200 ppm and your beer will be noticeably salty.

 

[BierMuncher]

...Sodium present at levels higher than 200 ppm and your beer will be noticeably salty.

"...this beer is making me thirsty..."

I have softened water and even on my lightest (3%, 15 IBU) beers, there's no salt taste.

 

[user 4295]

"...this beer is making me thirsty..."

I have softened water and even on my lightest (3%, 15 IBU) beers, there's no salt taste.

I love your "this beer is making me thirsty" line, LOL!

I'm glad you have had good luck using softened water in your brewing. You are one of the few brewers that I know that have. Low Ca and Mg levels are not as much of a concern with extract brewing, but as I'm sure you know they are essential for mashing.

Here's what John Palmer has to say about sodium and softened water.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sodium (Na+1)
Atomic Weight = 22.9
Equivalent Weight = 22.9
Brewing Range = 0-150 ppm.
Sodium can occur in very high levels, particularly if you use a salt-based (i.e. ion exchange) water softener at home. In general, you should never use softened water for mashing. You probably needed the calcium it replaced and you definitely don't need the high sodium levels. At levels of 70 - 150 ppm it rounds out the beer flavors, accentuating the sweetness of the malt. But above 200 ppm the beer will start to taste salty. The combination of sodium with a high concentration of sulfate ions will generate a very harsh bitterness. Therefore keep at least one or the other as low as possible, preferably the sodium.

[/FONT]

 

[mosyslack]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I have been making blonde ales lately and the taste is very good. No off flavors... just no/minimal head.

BierMuncher... How's St. Louis these days? I was there in March shortly after the great rebuild of 40 started. I am originally from there. Trying to get out that way in Sept

 

[Saccharomyces]

According to my water report I should end up with 100 ppm sodium after the softener, 35 ppm without, assuming 100% Ca and Mg replacement. According to HowToBrew that is well within the acceptable threshold.

I guess the only way to really know is to check the water report since everybody's water is different.

- Eric

 

[BierMuncher]

...BierMuncher... How's St. Louis these days? I was there in March shortly after the great rebuild of 40 started. I am originally from there. Trying to get out that way in Sept

It was 95 and 98% humidity today. I was either in the basement brewshop (70 degrees) or in the pool with a cold one.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I run my water through a charcoal filter and use a PH buffer. Maybe not perfect, but decent enough that two of my three entries placed 2nd and 3rd in a local competiton last month with an honorable mention in best of show.