Soapy tasting, green smelling...

[govain]

So I've had a batch of American Wheat in the primary for just over a month now. I went to keg it and took a sample for gravity and tasting. It started at a 1.040 and is now around 1.010ish. The fermenter has kind of a grassy/green smell to it and the beer tastes soapy. Not quite sure what to make of it. (Also, it's been fermenting at 60-65 degrees I believe.)

Should I:

A: go ahead and keg it.
B: rack it into a secondary.
C: give it a little more time in the primary.

 

[alenub]

If your FG is the same over the course of a few days it probably just needs further conditioning, in which case the secondary would come in handy but isn't necessary. What yeast did you use, what was your recipe?

 

[govain]

Safale US-05 Ale Yeast

6 lbs. wheat malt extract
1 oz. Willamette (60 min)
1 oz. Cascade (15 min)


it was recommended 2 week primary, 2 week bottle conditioning, but since I was kegging I figured that I'd just got 4 week primary and then keg it.

The last batch of this I brewed (my first batch) was kind of green yet after the 4 weeks. I found that it was best after 2-3+ months in the bottle. Any thoughts on how to speed the process up as I'm kegging? 3 months on a session beer seems kinda rediculous.

 

[alenub]

Keep in mind most if not all recommendations for fermentation timing are under ideal, controlled conditions. Most of us don't have them, so you can safely chuck these recommendations in the bin... we have to rely on other measures to determine when our brew is done or needs to move on to the next stage. If you have done this same batch before and 4 weeks still tasted green, with it not tasting as it should until 2-3 months later, ask yourself if anything in your environment has changed. Is your primary temp significantly warmer than the last time you brewed it? Is the temp fluxuating? Did you use a starter and pitch at the same temp? If not, then nothing should change about this batch - it needs 2-3 months of conditioning first, which means a secondary if you'll be kegging.

If you want a session beer that will be ready to drink in less than a month, first place to look is your OG - the higher it is, the longer the yeast needs to do its thing and make your beer taste good. The more experienced brewers here might be able to pinpoint what you could change in your recipe to make it finish quicker, but it sounds to me like you could seriously do with a pipeline. Transfer that thing to a secondary, forget about it, and start your next batch.

 

[skyebrewing]

Your situation may be different, but I did an all grain wheat with same og that came out soapy. Read threads and it looks like dead yeast can cause this. I dumped, did it again and it was fine. My opinion is a 1040 beer should be good after a month. If not, something is wrong.

 

[govain]

That was my figuring too Skye. I'm just trying to figure out what is wrong. I think that I'm gonna stop doing the extended primary. I know everybody says "oh it's fine," but I haven't been having good results with it. Maybe this will fix it.

As for the current batch, I think I'll rack it into a secondary and forget about it for a month or so.

 

[skyebrewing]

I wouldn't worry about it. I try to average low 1040s for most beers and run 2 weeks primary, crash a couple days and keg. I have primaried for extended periods without issues, only having soapy issues with wheat. Maybe its a coincidence, but high wheat percentages and long primaries gave me issues. Keep good clean sanitary conditions and try again. It may cost a bit, but if you know it's wrong, dump and try again. Its better than choking down flawed beer you really don't like just so you don't waste it.

 

[unionrdr]

It's starting to sound like using all wheat,or too high a percentage of wheat causes these things. Maybe try changing 1/3 of the total to a pilsen malt,which is pretty light. I've seen it used in a lot of wheat style brews.

 

[Yooper]

"Soapy" taste can usually be traced back to the yeast.

I hate to go against the grain, but I'd venture to say that leaving a 1.040 beer in the primary for a month doesn't give the best result. I know, I know! A big vocal gang on this forum says that's good, but I don't think a small beer in a long primary is a great idea. I've never gone more than three weeks anyway, but for a 1.040 beer, I'd go 10 days to 2 weeks.

Soapy taste is either from soap used in the process, or due to the breakdown of yeast.
From Palmer:
Soapy
Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap.

 

[emjay]

"Soapy" taste can usually be traced back to the yeast.

I hate to go against the grain, but I'd venture to say that leaving a 1.040 beer in the primary for a month doesn't give the best result. I know, I know! A big vocal gang on this forum says that's good, but I don't think a small beer in a long primary is a great idea. I've never gone more than three weeks anyway, but for a 1.040 beer, I'd go 10 days to 2 weeks.

Soapy taste is either from soap used in the process, or due to the breakdown of yeast.
From Palmer:
Soapy
Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap.

Agree with Yooper's second half. Came here to post Palmer's quote as well. Although there are other reasons you can end up with fatty acid salts other than what he stated; in fact, I've never had any issues due to long primaries - even MUCH longer primaries with small beers, that I simply wasn't able to bottle in a timely manner.

Palmer's book is a great resource, especially for beginners, but it's also littered with mistakes - many of which should be obvious to almost every experienced brewer. Fatty acid salts, which DO taste like soap, do become present above the taste threahold in some beers, so the science is correct, but if the yeast is healthy and properly taken care of, a long primary is not an issue, no matter the gravity of the beer - especially if you're pitching at proper (proportional) rates. As great as "How to Brew" is to learn, well, how to brew, I'm sure even Yooper is aware of the need to take much of what Palmer says with a grain of salt (no pun intended.)

 

[unionrdr]

^^^Well said,emjay. My thoughts as well. Maybe a good starting resource,but,ultimately,your own observations should teach you much. Especially when you read up on here with those observations in mind. Then,much learning can be accomplished.

 

[govain]

Thanks guys. The common denominator seems to be the extended time for a lighter beer, and the wheat. (doubt it's the soap, I use PBW to clean and Star-san to sanitize)

I was aware of Palmer's book (consulted it before I posted, I have 3rd Ed. sitting in front of me right now). I was hoping that somebody would corroborate. I like to try to get the info from as many sources as possible.

In the future I think I'll shoot for a shorter primary for my 1040's, especially wheats. I may also try the liquid yeast rather than going with a dry + starter.