So many questions not sure how to label(Saison)

[invisibletrubble]

So I just started brewing again after a good ~3year hiatus. I got a MWSupp beginner kit as a secret Santa gift and felt the time had come. Never one for testing the water first, I decided my first brew would be a beer that I'd be really proud of. I sort of formulated my own recipe for a lemon/orange/pepper saison.

However, it's been so long(I was a novice back then and even more so now) I don't know when's the opportune time to bottle from my primary. Most of the research I've read said to skip the secondary since I'm not adding any extra fruit and hopefully if the orange flavors carry over from my boil I should be fine.

pertinents:
wort OG: 1.080
cooled wort amount : 3.5 gallons
yeast: wyeast 3711
temp:costant @ 72-74 degrees F
containter: primary bucket



So here are the questions:
When would be a good time to bottle? I've seen anywhere from 2 - 4 weeks.

I'd love to check the SG again once the yeast slows down a bit. Would that require me to opening the bucket siphoning then returning the sample? Is it worth the possibility of contaminating?

Is there a certain type of priming sugar for bottling that's better with this yeast/type of beer?

I know it's a lot. If you'd like to see the recipe I'd be more than happy to post it. Thanks.

 

[JayDubWill]

Congratulations on getting back to brewing. I know i've got to carve the time out myself or i'd never find it to brew. My response is below your questions.

When would be a good time to bottle? I've seen anywhere from 2 - 4 weeks.
Let the gravity reading dictate the best time. Three consistent readings across 3 days is a pretty reliable indicator. That being said I rarely use this method myself and just leave the beer in primary three weeks and take a single reading. If its at or within a couple points of my target final gravity I call it good. If it's several points high, i'll leave it to sit another week and check again.

I'd love to check the SG again once the yeast slows down a bit. Would that require me to opening the bucket siphoning then returning the sample? Is it worth the possibility of contaminating?
There is always a risk of contamination and infection when you open the lid and put something in the beer, but it's a risk we can reduce pretty substantially. First make sure you sanitize anything that will come in contact with the wort, including your hands. For me that's a wine thief, but a turkey baster, or soup ladle will work as well. If your bucket is deep enough you may not even need to dip a spoon into it, just sanitize the hydrometer and gently put it in the bucket. I use Starsan since it's no rinse and I can mix it in a spray bottle to soak whatever I need to. Second, if you can't float the hydrometer and need to pull some of the wort out, don't dump the sample back into the bucket. You only need 3oz or so for the hydrometer to float so it's not a huge loss. I usually drink part of my sample in order to get an idea of what the finished beer will taste like. If I like the hydro sample I know the beer is going to be great. If the sample sucks I usually leave the beer in primary another week or two depending on the style in order for the yeast to continue to clean up any byproducts.

Is there a certain type of priming sugar for bottling that's better with this yeast/type of beer
I've had great success using all kinds of sugar and the only one to impart a flavor (to me) has been honey. Even then it was mild. I've used brown sugar in dark beers, but I can't tell you if it made a flavor impact. So little sugar is used in bottling it's not a big contributor. That being said my favorite sugar is probably corn sugar, also labeled as priming sugar. Only because it dissolves and mixes so quickly and easily compared to the others. The main goal is even distribution of sugar in order to get consistent carbonation. I've found after transferring 1/2 gallon or so to my bottling bucket then sprinkling in the priming sugar and letting the rest of the beer swirl into the bucket gets really consistent results without needing to shake or otherwise agitate the beer. Set your racking cane hose along the edge of the bottom of the bucket to get it to swirl without agitation. You really don't want to shake or agitate the beer at this point since it can oxidize.

 

[invisibletrubble]

Thanks for the thorough answers. I really appreciate it. You've definitely helped assuage some of my concerns.

When would be a good time to bottle? I've seen anywhere from 2 - 4 weeks.
That being said I rarely use this method myself and just leave the beer in primary three weeks and take a single reading..

I think I'll try this method out and test within that third week. I'm worried about the orange flavors so might as well taste it then too.

If the sample sucks I usually leave the beer in primary another week or two depending on the style in order for the yeast to continue to clean up any byproducts.

Far too often I've had homebrews from friends and it's had a poor color and off taste. I'm just assuming poor bottling and taking too much sediment from the fermentor. Would leaving it a little longer help clean that up?

I've had great success using all kinds of sugar and the only one to impart a flavor (to me) has been honey. Even then it was mild. So little sugar is used in bottling it's not a big contributor. That being said my favorite sugar is probably corn sugar, also labeled as priming sugar. Only because it dissolves and mixes so quickly and easily compared to the others. The main goal is even distribution of sugar in order to get consistent carbonation. I've found after transferring 1/2 gallon or so to my bottling bucket then sprinkling in the priming sugar and letting the rest of the beer swirl into the bucket gets really consistent results without needing to shake or otherwise agitate the beer. Set your racking cane hose along the edge of the bottom of the bucket to get it to swirl without agitation. You really don't want to shake or agitate the beer at this point since it can oxidize.

Is there a certain ratio I'd use for mixing or judging the amount?

I've seen a lot of information about getting the right CO^2 levels, I'm not sure what I should be shooting for. I just don't want to create a 'bomb.

I'm probably going to use honey or priming sugar. I've got a couple weeks to decide. I did use honey in my recipe so just for continuity sake, maybe.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[TheHappyHopper]

Far too often I've had homebrews from friends and it's had a poor color and off taste. I'm just assuming poor bottling and taking too much sediment from the fermentor. Would leaving it a little longer help clean that up?

Poor color may have been due to the extract carmelizing in the kettle (if they used extract to make their beer).

Poor clarity could have been fixed by cold crashing the beer once it is done fermenting (putting the whole fermenter in a cold space for a couple days - like a fridge, or in the garage in winter), or by letting the bottles sit in the fridge for a week or so after they are carbonated. The cold helps the extra yeast and proteins settle out and compact to the bottom.

Off flavors could have been caused by several different things - something wrong with the recipe, hard or highly chlorinated tap water used for brewing, an infection, or maybe they just needed to age longer (From my own experience when I brew a batch, I can't wait to try one, so I usually make the mistake of popping one open after its been bottled 1 week and it always tastes watery and undercarbonated and sometimes the yeast still has some cleaning up to do of diacetyl and other off flavors)

Is there a certain ratio I'd use for mixing or judging the amount?

I've seen a lot of information about getting the right CO^2 levels, I'm not sure what I should be shooting for. I just don't want to create a 'bomb.

Check out the Priming Sugar Calculator on Northern Brewer, that's what I use. Choose the type of beer you are brewing, and it will tell you what the appropriate level of carbonation is for that style - it will also tell you how much sugar to add (and gives you more sugars to choose from than you would ever need). Just make sure that for the volume, you don't put in the full 3.5 gallons - you will lose some in transferring your beer to the bottling bucket - it will probably be more like 3.25 gallons or so.

Priming Sugar Calculator

 

[invisibletrubble]

Check out the Priming Sugar Calculator on Northern Brewer, that's what I use. Choose the type of beer you are brewing, and it will tell you what the appropriate level of carbonation is for that style - it will also tell you how much sugar to add (and gives you more sugars to choose from than you would ever need). Just make sure that for the volume, you don't put in the full 3.5 gallons - you will lose some in transferring your beer to the bottling bucket - it will probably be more like 3.25 gallons or so.

Priming Sugar Calculator

This is exactly what I was looking for, I just wasn't sure how to go about it. Thanks a metric ton(minimum). I think I'm going to use some sort of organic honey since I used that in the saison. There's also a possibility that I may just skip bottling all together and go straight to kegging.

 

[JayDubWill]

Kegging is great, but has its own set of problems. Best of luck either way.

 

[jrgtr42]

I was going to say most of what JayDub did above.
I personally target to leave beer in primary for 3 weeks. I'll test gravity at 17 or 18 days, just to get a reading, and then at the 21 day mark, prepped for bottling, I'll check it again to make sure the gravities are the same. Only once out of 20-something batches has it changed in that time frame. Also, if you take a sample to get gravity, do NOT return it to the main batch. Way too much risk of contamination there. Plus, as you said, you can taste it then.
As long as you're not adding anything, don't bother with secondary. The general consensus has become that if you're not bulk aging, on fruit, wood, bugs or some such, there are as many risks as advantages to secondary.
For priming, I personally use corn sugar. It's what was included in ever kit I ever used, and worked well enough that I saw no reason to try anything else once I started making my own recipes. Bought in bulk, it's cheap enough. I generally target somewhere around 4 - 5 oz sugar for a 5 gallon batch, depending on if I want a little more or less carbonation. I personally boil a cup or so of water, add the sugar to dissolve, then add that to my bottling bucket and rack the beer on top of that. The swirling of the siphoned beer will mix the sugar solution in enough to give good carbonation across all the bottles.

 

[TheHappyHopper]

This is exactly what I was looking for, I just wasn't sure how to go about it. Thanks a metric ton(minimum). I think I'm going to use some sort of organic honey since I used that in the saison. There's also a possibility that I may just skip bottling all together and go straight to kegging.

Personally, I would be a little hesitant about using honey. From what I have read, the sugar content can vary from different sources, so you can't be 100% sure exactly how much to use - and i think conventional homebrewing wisdom says that the amount of priming sugar we use is so small, it doesn't have a significant impact on flavor anyways, so a lot of people just use table sugar because it is cheapest and readily available. But by all means, if you want to use honey then go for it!