SMaSH or not?

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jklett

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Hi all, my name's Jay and I just started brewing this year. I have only done an extract American ale that came with a kit and an all grain dunkelweizen(has a few more days to go in the fermentor) so far. The dunkelweizen came up a bit low on the OG(still within range and tastes great so far though) so I want to get a better handle on my mashing and learn a little more about hop flavor profiles. I bought 24 lbs of Maris Otter, 8 oz Citra, and 8 oz Mosaic to do 2 different SMaSH brews. I've been reading as much as I can and I've thoroughly confused myself as to what sort of hop schedule I should be doing. I'm not looking for anything overly bitter nor overly juicy, more of a balance between the 2. Maybe I should do some sort of mix with the 2 varieties and just make 2 batches of the same brew? I thought I had an idea as to what I was after but I've gotten a bit of paralysis by analysis going on. I don't have to use all of the hops either, I have a vacuum sealer. I appreciate any suggestions, I'm not going to brew until Thursday so I have time to think this through.
 

seatazzz

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Citra and Mosaic play very nice with each other, and they also make great SMASH beers. Both are also great bittering hops. If you are set on a SMASH, here's a hop schedule that might work for each (assuming 5g batch):

1oz either at 60 for bittering
1oz either at 10, 5, and flameout (that's 4oz so far), with a 10 minute hopstand/whirlpool
Dry hop; use what's left in one big one, or do two; 2oz 5 days post-pitch, and 2oz about 3-4 days prior to packaging.

If you want to mix them, I would go with straight Mosaic as the bittering hop; I've had great luck with it. Then use the above hop schedule in a 1:1 mix with each.
 

CascadesBrewer

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I bought 24 lbs of Maris Otter, 8 oz Citra, and 8 oz Mosaic to do 2 different SMaSH brews.
Are you making 5 gallon batches? Would like like something more like a Pale Ale hop level or an IPA hop level? A full 8oz of hops into a 5 gal batch is in line with what I would use for an IPA. My general suggestion for something like an American IPA might be:
  • 60 min: Enough hops to bring your total IBUs up to 50-70. (likely less than 1 oz)
  • 10 min boil: 2 oz hops
  • 0 min boil: 2 oz hops
  • dry hop: 3 oz hops
Which is similar to @seatazzz's suggestion. You could divide all those in half for more of a Pale Ale style beer.
 

dolanrolan

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Are you making 5 gallon batches? Would like like something more like a Pale Ale hop level or an IPA hop level? A full 8oz of hops into a 5 gal batch is in line with what I would use for an IPA. My general suggestion for something like an American IPA might be:
  • 60 min: Enough hops to bring your total IBUs up to 50-70. (likely less than 1 oz)
  • 10 min boil: 2 oz hops
  • 0 min boil: 2 oz hops
  • dry hop: 3 oz hops
Which is similar to @seatazzz's suggestion. You could divide all those in half for more of a Pale Ale style beer.
With my proclivity for NEIPAs, I would personally even go for a 5 oz dry hop, but reduce the 10 min and 0 min to 1 oz each. Any of the recommendations here should make a really nice beer though. Can't go wrong with a Mosaic or Citra beer.
 
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jklett

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Thanks all, I'm doing 5 gallon batches and am starting to lean towards a NEIPA but I think I might be a little light on hops for that. Whatever schedule I go with, both batches are going to be done the same. I plan on running this experiment with a bunch of different hops, these are just the 2 that I started with if that makes any difference in what direction I should go.
 

CascadesBrewer

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I have mixed feelings about SMaSH beers. I am not sure I have ever made a real SMaSH myself. I have made several single hop beers, either small 1 gallon (extract based) samplers or a few single hop pale ales. I made 5 single grain Pale Ales last year. The first batch was a 2.5 gal batch. I realized I did not want to 20+ gallons of single grain beers to drink, so the next batches were 1 gallon batches.

A Maris Otter Pale Ale base with Citra or Mosaic is likely to make a very good beer. This is probably one of the best SMaSH combos for a hoppy beer. It is a good way to learn about ingredients. I do feel you can make a better beer when you are not limited to just one grain and one hop.

Given the simplicity of the grain bill, I would personally lean toward a lighter hop schedule. The hop schedule I used for my single grain pale ales (scaled to 5 gal) was: bittering charge of 30 IBUs, 2 oz at 10 min, 2 oz at flameout (no dry hop). That gave me a reasonably enjoyable beer to drink, but the hops did not completely overpower the base grain.
 

Brews and Blues

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Has anyone had experience with the Mighty Axe Julius hops? So my next brew i wanted to do an extract brew in a pseudo SMASH style. Basically one type of DME and one type of hop. I grabbed a few oz of those Julius hops and some Light DME. This is my first time not using a kit, so i wanted to keep it super simple with a 60 min boil - 1oz of hops at 60min, .5oz at 30min, .5oz at 5min.
 

CascadesBrewer

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i wanted to keep it super simple with a 60 min boil - 1oz of hops at 60min, .5oz at 30min, .5oz at 5min.
I don't have any experience with Mighty Axe Julius...but if you want to go super simple maybe think about a 30 min boil, or a 10 min boil, or no boil! Over at Basic Brewing Radio they make single hop batches with no boil and a 10 min steep at flameout. I have made a number of small single hop extract batches and moved to the process of 1/3 oz at 10 min, 1/3 oz at flameout, 1/3 oz at dry hop. It makes a surprising good tasting Pale Ale style beer with plenty of bitterness.

There is another thread around here talking about 30 min boil additions. There seems to be a growing consensus that "30 min = flavor" is a myth. I have been moving my hoppy beers toward a total 30 min boil with a bittering addition at 30 mins, then moving "flavor" hop additions to 10 mins or less. Others only add flavor hops at flameout, whirlpool or dry hop.

If you want some hop flavors in your beer (and stick with the 60 min boil), I would suggest dropping the 30 min addition and adding more hops at 5 min or later. (Is this a 5 gal batch?)
 

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Knightshade

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I haven't brewed this yet, but it seems to have been received pretty well. Uses 2 of your requirements, MO & Mosaic

 

Kickass

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Similar to others, here’s what I’d do. 60min, enough to get 30-40 IBU.
10min- 1-2oz
5min- 1-2oz
F/O- 1-2oz
Dry hop- 2oz

Two separate smash’s would be ideal for these two hops.
 

Chuckbergman

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I usually brew a SMaSH beer every spring - great drinking for late spring/early summer. My preference is a base grain with a little more flavor than just 2-row. I usually go with Maris Otter or my personal favorite Munich. I need to try a Vienna SMaSH sometime soon. Citra and Cascade are my go-to hops for these beers. But it is a great way to try out new hops or test the flavor of some old classics like EKG, Fuggle or Williamette.

I agree with other posters in that this is a great opportunity for 30min mash and 30min boil to reduce your brew day. I also usually do a 3gal batch rather than 5.
 

Brews and Blues

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So on a 30min boil, what times are usual hop additions? 30, 15, 5?
I know everything is dependent on what you are wanting out of the hops. But, trying to follow this thread, it seems everyone has different opinions (imagine that!) on how important the timing of hop additions are.
Out of my 8 or so brews, every one has been a 60 min boil with most having 60, 30, 5 hop additions. I'm planning a SMASH and would love to do a 30min boil, so any guidance is appreciated.
 

dolanrolan

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So on a 30min boil, what times are usual hop additions? 30, 15, 5?
I know everything is dependent on what you are wanting out of the hops. But, trying to follow this thread, it seems everyone has different opinions (imagine that!) on how important the timing of hop additions are.
Out of my 8 or so brews, every one has been a 60 min boil with most having 60, 30, 5 hop additions. I'm planning a SMASH and would love to do a 30min boil, so any guidance is appreciated.
For SMaSH beers IMO you are trying to get as much depth of flavor from a single hop as possible. With that in mind, I'd go for a relatively high number of additions. For a 30 minute boil I might do 30,10, 5, flameout, and a whirlpool at 170, and a dry hop. Of course those are all optional, I'm just a fan of big hop flavor and that seems like the best way to get it from a single hop. At a minimum you'd want the 30 minute and something in the 10-flameout range.
 

Chuckbergman

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So on a 30min boil, what times are usual hop additions? 30, 15, 5?
I know everything is dependent on what you are wanting out of the hops. But, trying to follow this thread, it seems everyone has different opinions (imagine that!) on how important the timing of hop additions are.
Out of my 8 or so brews, every one has been a 60 min boil with most having 60, 30, 5 hop additions. I'm planning a SMASH and would love to do a 30min boil, so any guidance is appreciated.
The 30min addition is going to give you your bitterness. If you're shooting for a pale ale or IPA level of hoppiness, then I'd do a 5min, flame-out, and dry hop. Ounces is based on how much hop aroma and flavor you're looking for.
 

dwhite60

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I've started doing one hop addition at about 15 to 20 minutes. Takes more to get the bittering right but it's a lot easier than timing all those additions. I get good results.
 

Beenym88

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One of my first beers was a citra golden promise SMASH I did a lot of hop additions and it came out very good. I plan on doing it again at some point.
 
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jklett

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Just finishing up, I wound up doing .5 oz at 60, 1 oz at 20, 1 oz at hop stand at 170 for 20 minutes, and will be doing the rest(5.5 oz) as a dry hop. I'll let y'all know how they come out in a few weeks!
 

dolanrolan

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Just finishing up, I wound up doing .5 oz at 60, 1 oz at 20, 1 oz at hop stand at 170 for 20 minutes, and will be doing the rest(5.5 oz) as a dry hop. I'll let y'all know how they come out in a few weeks!
That sounds amazing. I think with that large of a dry hop you don't want to leave it in for too long or you may pull out grassiness and astringency. I'd probably only dry hop it 1-3 days before packaging.
 
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jklett

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A week later the citra is really starting to shine, the mild cattyness has gone away and the fruit has awoken. I still like the mix better than either by themselves.
 

CascadesBrewer

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A week later the citra is really starting to shine, the mild cattyness has gone away and the fruit has awoken. I still like the mix better than either by themselves.
I have not quite figured out the catty character of Citra. I used to avoid both Citra and Simcoe after having several commercial beers that were pure cat piss. These days I just don't ever see that, and I use both Citra and Simcoe in my beers often. I kinda think that the growers got better about knowing when to harvest or how to process those hops.

My girlfriend has not gotten over her hate for Citra in her mind. She has grown to love big NEIPAs. Even after enjoying dozens of them featuring Citra, if she sees Citra listed on a menu or can she says she will not like the beer.

I threw Citra and Mosaic at a recent Pale Ale (ish) beer I made. It is way too common, but it is a hard combo to beat.
 
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jklett

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I have not quite figured out the catty character of Citra. I used to avoid both Citra and Simcoe after having several commercial beers that were pure cat piss. These days I just don't ever see that, and I use both Citra and Simcoe in my beers often. I kinda think that the growers got better about knowing when to harvest or how to process those hops.

My girlfriend has not gotten over her hate for Citra in her mind. She has grown to love big NEIPAs. Even after enjoying dozens of them featuring Citra, if she sees Citra listed on a menu or can she says she will not like the beer.

I threw Citra and Mosaic at a recent Pale Ale (ish) beer I made. It is way too common, but it is a hard combo to beat.
It's strange, the ammonia smell was there last week and it just faded away. Maybe it's something to do with how fresh it is or minor O2 exposure (I don't have a closed transfer method ATM but am careful about how I keg as to not introduce much) but it was definitely there at the start. I'm learning and that was my goal.
 

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