Smack Pack - have I been misled?

[stpug]

Where the heck do you buy your yeast? That is way expensive. You can get US-05 for $3.29 a pack at Northern Brewer. Figure half a pound extract for a starter at about $1.80 and you are looking at either $6.58 for 2 packs of yeast or $5.09 for one with a starter. You don't even need more than one pack in most cases. For $1.50 I am not messing around with a starter.

From my LHBS. I don't live anywhere near Northern Brewer or Midwest or Austin or Rebel or Farmhouse or .... well you get the idea. I think you'll find that most of us lowly folk, living in the nether regions of the US, are not as fortunate as you are to get cheap yeast . If I factored in shipping on a sachet of yeast I'd be looking at a really ridiculous price.

Just called my LHBS, US05 is $3.50 and Nottingham is $4.50. I feel much better knowing they're at least somewhat competitive.

I use 3.4 oz of dme for a 1L starter. Even if the pound of DME cost me $5, I'd be looking at about $1.06, plus a liquid yeast ($7), for a grand total of $8.06. If I buy two sachets of dry yeast for a 1.075 batch then I'm looking at $7 for US05 or $9 for Notty. And, like I said, with liquid I get many more options to tailor my beer.

I guess we're different . I love making starters. I love ranching yeast. I've got 10 strains frozen (25 vials of ~90b cells each). I've got new 2 strains in my fridge ready for freezing. I've got two more new strains in my fridge that I'm building to freezing status (conan is spinning right now ). I've brewed two beers with my frozen yeast that both turned out great. And, I've got two fermenters full with yeast I will be harvesting. That'll make 16 strains of yeast to play with or pass along.

I guess this really is a hobby. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it

 

[boydster]

Just to add on to stpug's post, you need to do a 2L to 3L starter to get an appreciable gain in yeast cell count. That means more DME per starter.

 

[logan3825]

From my LHBS. I don't live anywhere near Northern Brewer or Midwest or Austin or Rebel or Farmhouse or .... well you get the idea. I think you'll find that most of us lowly folk, living in the nether regions of the US, are not as fortunate as you are to get cheap yeast . If I factored in shipping on a sachet of yeast I'd be looking at a really ridiculous price.

I don't live any of those either. I live at least half an hour from the nearest LHBS so I frequently order online. I always tack on a pack of US-05 or two so I have dry yeast without any extra shipping being added.

I use US-05 for just about anything except English styles(S-04), Wheats(where the yeast can drive the flavor), or Belgians(yeast drives the flavor again).

 

[stpug]

I don't live any of those either. I live at least half an hour from the nearest LHBS so I frequently order online. I always tack on a pack of US-05 or two so I have dry yeast without any extra shipping being added.

I use US-05 for just about anything except English styles(S-04), Wheats(where the yeast can drive the flavor), or Belgians(yeast drives the flavor again).

I'm within about 4 minutes of my LHBS so ordering online only happens when I need something special that I can't live without. Plus, the more I can support my local shop the better for them and me. I also try to tack on some dry sachets of yeast when ordering from an online store; it's just that I don't order online all too ofter. I usually end up at product-specific sites rather than full-blown supply shops.

I also use US05 and S04; both good yeasts from my perspective. As you're aware, yeast can give a subtle (or not-so-subtle) nuance that can help or hurt a beer, and while using fairly neutral yeasts is straight-forward and frequently the preferred choice for many styles, there are times when I want a little more. I want to experience the range of characteristics that yeast has to offer. This doesn't mean that I want 1968 in my AIPA, but german ale yeast or Pacman or Odell house yeast are all good in an AIPA, and each brings it's own spin on the same recipe. Or using 1028 London Ale in an ordinary bitter or stout really brings out the nutty/biscuitiness aspect of the beer versus the usual fruitiness you might get from 1968, and to a lesser extent S04.

I just kegged a 10.4% Belgian Dark Strong (1.092-1.014) that used previously-frozen, built up bottle dregs from a bottle of Westmalle Tripel (3787). The whole time this thing was fermenting I kept thinking how it must get it's pace of life from the monks themselves. It took a day and a half to really get going, and when it did, it moved slowly and took it's time. It moved slow but deliberate. They krausen raised up the side of the fermenter for 5 days before peaking. It increased it's internal temperature almost without effort on my part to the general range I was hoping to achieve (pitched at 64F stopped at ~71F), and it took about 6 days to get there. Once there I simply wrapped it with a blanket and it maintained its temperature for another week+. I had my fears that this beer was going to stall higher than 1.020 but it's got right down to where I had hoped it would. The sample I pulled the other day was fantastic; rich; malty; lightly sweet; hints of fruit; an alcohol warmth; and packs a punch. I'm eagerly awaiting getting this one on tap (6-12 months from now).

I did a similar thing with a 9.4% Belgian Golden Strong (pappers recipe) about 2 months ago using the built-up dregs from a bottle of PranQster. The results are delicious but it's still got a month or two before I'll put it on tap. It's a totally different story than above, but I'll save that for a different day

Anyway, I guess my point is that I really enjoy the variability I can get from yeast and enjoy the hobby of ranching, building-up, storing various strains for future use. And although I can buy Wyeast 3787 from my LHBS, it was much funner being able to drink a Westmalle Tripel and harvesting the yeast. I'm certain that my results would have been different had I used 3787 from the LHBS, but it was much funner the say I did it . BTW, I scavenged a pint of the sludge from the bottom of the fermenter for a Dubbel I have planned for next week

I guess my "yeast play" is what fills in the time between brewing batches :fro:

 

[Bob]

That's one of the most wonderful thing about our hobby: There are so many niches you can explore!

You're clearly process-oriented. You like to fiddle with gadgets, explore the lab-grade science of yeast ranching, and growing yeast from tiny dregs cultures left in bottles. From that you brew outstanding beer which is usually ever so slightly different. That's brilliant!

I am goal-oriented. I only care about the process insofar as it lets me consistently brew excellent beer. I don't color outside the lines much; I brew what I like and the overwhelming majority of what I like is style-based.

There are others who love to experiment with waaaaaay out of left field stuff. All they brew is Belgian Imperial Pumpkin Black Super IPA and stuff. That's pretty cool, too, even though I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.

I guess my point is there's room for all of us. And that's pretty neat.

Now I'm going to have another beer.

 

[stpug]

So true, Bob!

I too am having a (half-)pint. A miserly, pee yellow, lowish ABV, cream ale that tastes very good IMO; perhaps a bit mellow on all fronts but I guess that's what a cream ale really is

Cheers!

 

[boydster]

Bringing this thread back to life because Jamil got back to me about the "When pitching a fresh, laboratory culture grown with aeration and good nutrition, a brewer can use up to 50% lower pitching rate" issues we were discussing earlier in the thread. Here is what I asked him and his reply:

Me:

Hi Jamil,

I am reading the book you wrote with Chris White, and it discusses a pitch rate of ~1 million cells per milliliter per degree plato (.75 million for ales and 1.5 million for lagers) and then states that when using a fresh laboratory culture you can actually pitch at about half that rate. I also read a BYO article by John Palmer that states basically the same thing. On the Mr. Malty calculator, my understanding from using it is that it is telling me to pitch at the suggested rate for harvested yeast even if I am using a fresh vial or smack pack.

If I am making 5 gallons of beer (ale, for the sake of argument) with an OG of 1.060, and assuming I intend to purchase brand new, well-handled yeast, should I pitch 1 vial with ~100 billion cells (as the book seems to indicate would be appropriate) or should I be pitching closer to 200 billion cells either by making a starter or pitching a second vial (as the website seems to indicate)?

Love the book so far, and I hope you have a minute to read my email and set me straight!

Thanks,
Geoff

Jamil:

Geoff,
Really, there is no excuse for not making a starter every time. There is no "well-handled" yeast that doesn't result in some loss of viability. Making a starter is easy, and pretty much guarantees great results.


Jamil Zainasheff

So the general wisdom holds.

 

[JustLooking]

Interesting, but I'd like to see Chris White's response to the same email.

 

[boydster]

Interesting, but I'd like to see Chris White's response to the same email.

Make it happen, cap'n!