Slow start for yeast starter

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Gnomebrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
2,824
Reaction score
1,625
Location
Hobart
I have a 2.5L starter of WLP802 (Czech Budejovice Lager yeast) going at the moment. After 24 hours, it had zero signs of ferment which was confirmed with a gravity reading (but I was too lazy to check the pH for a shift). I've only ever had one failed yeast (WLP830) a few years ago and was a bit worried about a recurring WLP lager theme. I decided to give it another day to see whether it would go, and fortunately at 40 hours (this morning) there's activity! Normally I see a start within 12 hours. What's the longest it's taken to see activity in your starters? This might help to allay fears for others seeing long starter lag times.
 
Completely off topic here, but what was your fermentation profile you used for you WLP830 strain? I have a post about a high diacetyl rest and am worried about off flavors and aromas in the finished beer.
 
Is the starter on a stir plate?

I've had that same 802 yeast take 3 days to show any signs of growth (becoming significantly lighter in color) and another 2 days for getting some foam. That's on an orbital shaker, but expect similar performance on a stir plate.

As long as there's some action you should get appreciable growth. I'd give it another 24-48 hours to be sure. You would only know how much you got after cold crashing.
 
Of the 40+ liquid yeast starters I have made, as I recall, all started and finished within 18-36 hours with 1 notable exception - WLP800, which has taken as long as a 36-48 hours just to start. Perhaps it is a Czech strain thing.

Note, the oldest yeast used was 4.5 months from manufacture date and this did impact the start time significantly, although I do not have specifics.

was a bit worried about a recurring WLP lager theme
WLP makes great yeast and I have never had any issue with any of their strains including - 002, 005, 007, 530, 540, 800, 810, 830, 833, 838.
 
Completely off topic here, but what was your fermentation profile you used for you WLP830 strain? I have a post about a high diacetyl rest and am worried about off flavors and aromas in the finished beer.
I didn't use it - the vial was DOA so I ended up using a different strain.
 
Is the starter on a stir plate?

I've had that same 802 yeast take 3 days to show any signs of growth (becoming significantly lighter in color) and another 2 days for getting some foam. That's on an orbital shaker, but expect similar performance on a stir plate.

As long as there's some action you should get appreciable growth. I'd give it another 24-48 hours to be sure. You would only know how much you got after cold crashing.

Yes, it's on a stir plate. It sounds like mine was a fast starter then, with foam at 40 hours! I'm in no rush, so it will get another day then be stepped up to a 10L starter for a few days.
 
WLP makes great yeast and I have never had any issue with any of their strains including - 002, 005, 007, 530, 540, 800, 810, 830, 833, 838.

Yes, they do make great yeast. I suspect the issue I had with 830 was handling in transit (it has a long way to travel to get to me), not the quality from the manufacturer.
 
Why not brew a (small) beer with the 2.5 starter slurry, and use the cake for the bigger batch?
2 beers for one.

The thought has crossed my mind, but there are a few reasons why I'm not.
I can't be bothered brewing 10L (takes almost as long as brewing 60L, which is what the starter will be used for).
I keg (10L doesn't fill a keg; I do have some half-kegs/9.5L, but they're all full).
The yeast from a 10L stir plate starter will be healthier than from a 10L yeast cake.
1L of the 2.5L starter is being stored for the next beer, only 1.5L goes into the stepped up starter. 1.5L starter isn't enough for a full 20L batch of lager.
 
The yeast from a 10L stir plate starter will be healthier than from a 10L yeast cake.
Healthier by only a small margin maybe? Lager yeast doesn't get stressed as much, unless you brew high gravity.
I've been reusing lots of harvested yeast cakes the past 2 years.

Are you "brewing" 10L of starter wort from grain or using DME?

I overshot a 5.5 gallon brew last week, and ended up with a gallon and half extra wort, alas at 6 points OG reduction. Was thinking of using the extra wort for starters, but ended up fermenting half it out in a gallon jug, and added the other half to a beer of the same style that came up short on gravity (and volume!) after a spill (overflow) of first runnings... I had 4 spills that brew day, and 3 were before the club meeting. That was a record, marvelous!
 
Healthier by only a small margin maybe? Lager yeast doesn't get stressed as much, unless you brew high gravity.
I've been reusing lots of harvested yeast cakes the past 2 years.

It's quite a big difference - depending on the starter size and initial cell count it's somewhere in the double to ten times range (going off a comparison from yeast pitch calculators, comparing the cell count from stir plate with cell count from no agitation). I also reuse harvested yeast cakes and it works really well, but you need cake from a bigger batch that what I'd use from a starter. For 60L of 1.048 lager, I'd use a 10L stir-plate starter (stepped up from 1.5L), or the cake from a 20 to 30L batch of beer. The cake from a 10L batch of beer isn't enough for a 60L lager.

Are you "brewing" 10L of starter wort from grain or using DME?

DME. I use a large DME starter for the first batch off a new pack of yeast, then a small starter plus some slurry for future batches (or just slurry if I haven't got around to making a starter).
 
Back
Top