Single Vessel, All Electric, NS, NC Brewery

[ScubaSteve]

Awesome. I might have to steal some more of your models on Sketchup! You do good work!

I like the integrated deep sink. You could have a bottom valve on the vessel, with a tee, and reroute your wastewater into the sink when it comes time to CIP.

Or, you could modify the sink's drain and ferment in it! Wrap a glycol coil around it, and you're set. Maybe use a CFC and then you've got a chiller for your fermenter AND your wort. You'd have room under the unit for a small freezer.

Also, why not put the controls under the table, but in the same location? It'd be protected, and you'd free up space on the table.

Rather than hooking the hoist on the wall, maybe make an overarching "hutch" out of SS square tube. You could use it as a top shelf for storage, plus the hoist on the underside would be strong enough to haul ~75 lbs. max.....

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am not sure about the RIMS tube either. Steve- why do you want a separate RIMS tube?

I will play with some design changes today.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Starting to get the hang of sketchup....I have a few models up under ScubaSteve in the Sketchup Warehouse. B-K, I took the liberty of turning your Bayou Classic 82qt into a 100qt MegaPot!

I want the RIMS so I can add on-demand hot water over the basket in order to sparge. I want to be able to do everything that a 3 vessel rig can do, in one vessel. My RIMS will essentially be my HLT, though I plan on heating strike water directly in the pot.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The other idea I had was to somehow seal the sides of the basket so that the only flow was through the base. Basically a zap-pap sparge system except it is the brew kettle. Not exactly sure how to do it though.

This would make sparging more effective.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well, the more places you give the liquor to rinse and escape the tun, you'll be rinsing a lot more out. Plus you don't want to close off the holes as it will also be used as a hop basket when you boil. Don't know why, but I really want a 100 quart pot. I figure if you got a megapot then you could buy the basket separate and you could dial down the deadspace in the bottom. The basket should fit all the way down, as there is no lip for it to rest on.

It would be nice to be able to do 5-25 gallon batches in a rig like this...but I can see issues with it being too big for a 5gal batch. The deadspace alone is 4 gallons, and you gotta get the grain basket dipped in there deep for a good mash. Maybe you'd have to compensate with a long boil....these pots DO have high evap rates, and I'm sure the 5500W ULD will help

 

[jeffmeh]

I want the RIMS so I can add on-demand hot water over the basket in order to sparge. I want to be able to do everything that a 3 vessel rig can do, in one vessel. My RIMS will essentially be my HLT, though I plan on heating strike water directly in the pot.

I am sorry if I am being dense, but would that work the same way if you recirculated from out of the bottom of the pot and into the top of the basket, with a heating element in the kettle, and without a separate heating element in the RIMS tube? What purpose does a separate element in the RIMS tube serve?

 

[bakins]

I am not sure about the RIMS tube either.

FWIW, the reason I still use a RIMS tube in my single vessel setup is because I already had it. That's all

Also, 80% efficiency with no-sparge is good enough for me.

 

[wyzazz]

80% no-sparge huh? Is this due to your grain crush?

BTW, I'm very interested in this compact Single Vessel idea. Time to get a bigger pot!

 

[bakins]

80% no-sparge huh? Is this due to your grain crush?

I generally get 100% conversion and have no dead space. I just make sure the pH is right. I crush @.030 on my barley crusher. I generally dough-in at 135 and raise to mash temp -- no dough-balls and easy to do with my RIMS. 90 minute boil. Larger grain bills are slightly lower.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Bakins, what's the biggest grain bill you've done in that 62 quart setup? I did the math, and the actual volume of the basket is 9.75 gallons.

Something else to consider for reducing deadspace: Use a non Bayou Classic pot and buy a steamer basket separately. The basket should drop all the way in. You could bend the element down slightly and then back to horizontal, and this might buy you a few centimeters....which would amount to a significant volume in a 25 gal pot.....YMMV.

Regarding the RIMS. Yes, the element in the BK can be used exclusively to heat the mash and recirculate. What it can't do is introduce FRESH heated water into the system for sparging. Hence, the RIMS. I would be able to select between water or wort at the inlet of the RIMS, via a 3-way valve (haven't figured my plumbing out yet). I plan on using the BCS-460 so the cost of another element, SSR, etc. is minimal and gives me more flexibility.

Sparging may not be necessary for some of us, but I see nothing wrong with getting a nice rinse at the end. I imagine you'd get quite a bit of sugar out of there with a 170F rinse using fresh water due to the difference in osmolarity.

 

[XXguy]

Sparging may not be necessary for some of us, but I see nothing wrong with getting a nice rinse at the end. I imagine you'd get quite a bit of sugar out of there with a 170F rinse using fresh water due to the difference in osmolarity.

I like the idea of being able to do a sparge-on-demand, but do you think you'll really get enough heat out of a RIMS hex to go from @60 degree tap water up to @ 170 instantly?

 

[Birdgunner]

Just came across this, pretty cool. It appears Bakins has started a movement, I too have consulted with him but my build is a little more simplistic than what you have in mind. Here is my general concept:

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I have a water line coming from my tankless water heater (Thank you Mr. President for the tax credit and sparge source! haha) that will deliver up to 180F water... the bottle neck is I have Chloramine treated water so I can only fill the pot up at a rate of .5 gal/min (max rate of the filter), I was going to use a fry basket from Bayou and line it with SS mesh as well but after consulting with GreenMonti decided a solid walled pot with a perfed bottom would work just as well but allow for sparging should I elect to go that route.
So I got a 75L, 316SS pot off eBay for $70:

[/IMG]
Started drilling 1/16" holes, 5/32" on center.... this is going to take forever but should provide some advantages over larger diameter holes:

[/IMG]
Took off the handles and got some eyes welded on so I can hook this up to my pulley and hoist this pot out:

[/IMG]
Got my stand put togther, just need to mount the burner and paint it with POR-20:

[/IMG]
And besides only using 1.5 pots what I like the best is the small footprint, 20.25x20.25x25 (45" with the 100qt main pot resting on the stand).
Just waiting on my main pot to ship out from the factory to GreenMonti to work his magic on a 1" coupler for me and it should be on!
Similar idea, just not as fancy as what you are thinking of.
-BTW, sorry Wortmonger for stealing the pic of your coated keggle, that thing is just plain awesome-

 

[bakins]

Bakins, what's the biggest grain bill you've done in that 62 quart setup? I did the math, and the actual volume of the basket is 9.75 gallons.

I'd have to look at my notes, but the pot actually does hold right at 15 gallons. The volume of the basket doesn't matter that much. The dead space under the basket isn't "dead" -- it's recirculated through the grain bed and,when the grain is removed/drained, all the mash water (minus absorption) is already in the pot.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I'd have to look at my notes, but the pot actually does hold right at 15 gallons. The volume of the basket doesn't matter that much. The dead space under the basket isn't "dead" -- it's recirculated through the grain bed and,when the grain is removed/drained, all the mash water (minus absorption) is already in the pot.

I agree with dead space not being actually "dead". However, I respectfully think the volume of the basket DOES matter, because that is a deciding factor in how much grain you can use in your system.

The pots are huge, they can handle the boil; the baskets are significantly smaller, around 2/3 the volume of the pot. If the basket sits at the top of the pot and it is full of grain, but the pot is not full of water, there will be grain in the top of the basket that is not getting mashed. Another reason why I feel it is important to get a good sparge from the top down.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I like the idea of being able to do a sparge-on-demand, but do you think you'll really get enough heat out of a RIMS hex to go from @60 degree tap water up to @ 170 instantly?

Oh, hell yeah.....I'll be using a 4500-5500W 220VAC LD element. I would also be able to control the temp of the inlet water (it will come from the tap) so I can cut down on time/power consumption.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I was going to use a fry basket from Bayou and line it with SS mesh as well but after consulting with GreenMonti decided a solid walled pot with a perfed bottom would work just as well but allow for sparging should I elect to go that route. It will probably work fine for mashing/sparging and definitely be sturdier...but I don't think it will work as well for boiling the hops in, which is what I plan on doing. You're going to spend a lot of time drilling those holes, and the pot cost almost as much as a basket with holes AND a handle. I like your style, though....wish I could weld like GreenMonti!

-BTW, sorry Wortmonger for stealing the pic of your coated keggle, that thing is just plain awesome- I totally planned on ripping that off, too! I don't like how the Bayou classic pots have an emblem on them, and the rhino lining is durable, attractive insulation

See above for comments...

 

[jeffmeh]

Bakins, what's the biggest grain bill you've done in that 62 quart setup? I did the math, and the actual volume of the basket is 9.75 gallons.

Something else to consider for reducing deadspace: Use a non Bayou Classic pot and buy a steamer basket separately. The basket should drop all the way in. You could bend the element down slightly and then back to horizontal, and this might buy you a few centimeters....which would amount to a significant volume in a 25 gal pot.....YMMV.

Regarding the RIMS. Yes, the element in the BK can be used exclusively to heat the mash and recirculate. What it can't do is introduce FRESH heated water into the system for sparging. Hence, the RIMS. I would be able to select between water or wort at the inlet of the RIMS, via a 3-way valve (haven't figured my plumbing out yet). I plan on using the BCS-460 so the cost of another element, SSR, etc. is minimal and gives me more flexibility.

Sparging may not be necessary for some of us, but I see nothing wrong with getting a nice rinse at the end. I imagine you'd get quite a bit of sugar out of there with a 170F rinse using fresh water due to the difference in osmolarity.

Ah, I finally get it. You want to use the RIMS tube to introduce fresh sparge water, rather than recirculate water already in the pot. My plan is to do this with BIAB at full water volume, so I will skip the RIMS tube. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Bingo. It's a personal choice, definitely not necessary. I still haven't figured how to integrate a long RIMS tube horizontally into my rig and plumb the control valves in an attractive way.

 

[Birdgunner]

It will probably work fine for mashing/sparging and definitely be sturdier...but I don't think it will work as well for boiling the hops in, which is what I plan on doing...

I agree, my plan to address this is to incorporate a SS braid manifold on the main pots discharge. After the mash, hoist out the inner pot, get to a boil and start throwing in the hops...if the braid gets clogged, plan B may be to dump the spent grain out of the pot, rinse and then just put it back in during the boil and add hops accordingly, we'll see how it goes.
As for cost, you're right, when it is all said and done my pots will be only a couple bucks less than the Bayou combo but my twisted logic is, drilling a billion holes offsets not having to deal with cleaning mesh or tearing it will my paddle! ha My original plan was to use the bayou basket and then weld in, rather GreenMonti weld in, some 1/16"x1/8" perfed SS sheet to make a super basket, but then I figured out how expensive perfed sheet is and that brings us where I am today, plus as GM pointed out should I ever want to recirc I'll have a compacted grain bed and concentrated flow to better filter as opposed to water being able to flow out the sides, bottom,etc... this is the theory at least.
Can't wait to see how your build turns out, you have some good ideas and I think you'll be able to compete with the Braumeister! haha

 

[ScubaSteve]

Similar to your SS braid, I used a bazooka tee, and it worked great. It will be fine if you use whole hops.....but it will definitely clog with pellets. I just don't like having to disconnect the entire vessel, turn it upside down, and scrub it out.

I'd LOVE to get some perforated sheet and bend it into a cylinder with a diameter of ~18", but I just don't have the equipment or skill. If you know someone who does, let me know The SS mesh is pretty tuff stuff, how hard do you plan on stirring your mash I guess the low-tech-but-still-classy version would be to get an aluminum (for ease of drilling) pot in the proper dimensions and drill the bottom AND sides....or you could go with SS if you had a drill press, several sharp bits, and lots of time.

In my design, I'm hoping the basket will be the ONLY thing to clean....then I can use a CIP sprayball to rinse out the vessel and lines, heating with the element and recirculating for about 1/2 hour while I put stuff away and put the filled fermenter in place. Hopefully I can also design the system such that it can be drained quickly using only one valve....

 

[Birdgunner]

In my design, I'm hoping the basket will be the ONLY thing to clean....then I can use a CIP sprayball to rinse out the vessel and lines, heating with the element and recirculating for about 1/2 hour while I put stuff away and put the filled fermenter in place. Hopefully I can also design the system such that it can be drained quickly using only one valve....

NOW THAT WOULD BE SLICK!
I imagine it can be done though (I must have a secret Freudian love affair for the Braumeister since I mention it in nearly half of all my posts) because it is only one pot and one valve unless I am missing something in the video.
The quote I got for the perfed SS was a little over $300 and that would only cover the walls of the 80 qt basket, making a tube if you will... that was almost as much as my entire build... hence why I didn't go with it but it would work very well. As for the mesh, what I had in mind and available wasn't all that rigid, sounds like you found something much better.
Hope you can make this thing happen, sounds like a good phase II for me!

 

[ScubaSteve]

So, as I was browsing McMaster, I saw THIS:

McMaster Part#'s: 1471T26, 1471T27

Weld one of these on each side of the pot with a crossbar, and you've got a telescoping crossmember! One concern I had with the hoist was the height. This solves the problem...you just collapse her up when you're done! Still sexy, and this could easily hold the weight of 50+ lbs of wet grain....

I also think you could modify something like this to be a guard for a sight gauge.....

 

[ScubaSteve]

Okaaaaaayyyy....after even more searching on McMaster...I found this:

It's 316 SS screen. Here's the info:
Part# 1667A22
Type 316 Stainless Steel Insect Screening .009" Wire, 24" Width, 7' Length
In stock at $29.24 Each

24 in wide x 7 ft long will line the inside of a 100qt stockpot with a bit left over. Not as durable as some of the other options, but it is 1/4 the price and shouldn't be a problem if you don't beat the basket to hell.....

There's definite possibilities here....PLEASE, someone tell me if I'm missing something, I don't want to get my hopes up

 

[Birdgunner]

Are you going to sew on the bottom? 20"H x 62"L or so (off top of my head so not 100%) will cover the inside walls of a 100qt pot but then you have a 20" or lil less bottom diameter to cover/ incorporate as well. Not sure how well your seams would hold up?

 

[MultumInParvo]

Wow. Like usual I have little to add. But I just read over this whole thread and it is sweet. As much as I love the sweet three pot set ups (and even the two) I am really tight on space (and money) and something like this would be great. You can make a great looking, very effective, brewing rig that takes up little space and doesn't kill your wallet. I defiantly see myself doing something like this down the line.

Keep up the good ideas. I'll need to steal them later!

 

[Birdgunner]

Wow. Like usual I have little to add. But I just read over this whole thread and it is sweet. As much as I love the sweet three pot set ups (and even the two) I am really tight on space (and money) and something like this would be great. You can make a great looking, very effective, brewing rig that takes up little space and doesn't kill your wallet. I defiantly see myself doing something like this down the line.

Keep up the good ideas. I'll need to steal them later!

You darn Michigan guys!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Are you going to sew on the bottom? 20"H x 62"L or so (off top of my head so not 100%) will cover the inside walls of a 100qt pot but then you have a 20" or lil less bottom diameter to cover/ incorporate as well. Not sure how well your seams would hold up?

The best I can figure is to lay JB weld in a bead around the top and bottom of the screen, to keep it covering the holes....then do the same with the bottom. You might be able to silver solder the screen to the basket if you prep it well.

 

[bakins]

The pots are huge, they can handle the boil; the baskets are significantly smaller, around 2/3 the volume of the pot. If the basket sits at the top of the pot and it is full of grain, but the pot is not full of water, there will be grain in the top of the basket that is not getting mashed. Another reason why I feel it is important to get a good sparge from the top down.

I got you. But in reality, the mash volume (water + grain) is almost the entire pot and the grain is floating around freely. Or at least that's been my experience.

 

[CamelToeJoe]

Just thinking out loud.

A keg should fit in a 55 gallon SS drum. Cut a hole (say 8 inches) put a false bottom in the keg and there you go. Just use the keg handles to lift by. Easy to make easy to clean.

Should be easy to brew bigger batches.

Just gotta find a good source for 55 gallon SS drums, (craigslist)

Also if a keg won't do it, the diameter of a 55 gallon drum is roughly 22.5 inches and get a stainless pot to fit. Cut a hole in the bottom and get Jaybird to make you a FB.

Now... Cut a slit part way around the bottom of the keg where the FB can slide in and out. When you're done position the keg over the trashcan pull the FB out, the grains drop into the trashcan. Even easier to clean, while the wort boils away in the 55 gallon drum.

Easy enough for the three vessel HERMSer to convert over to.

 

[ScubaSteve]

This would definitely work for those making huge batches.